Painting for the entry level person

[Gordon Maney]

As part of my consideration of getting a truck ready for the rally, I am thinking about the paint side of things, and in a number of ways.

Mixing thoughts, there are things I could paint while the wiring harness is out of my M37, and I could more easily disassemble the truck for such painting while the wiring harness is out. Once the wiring harness is installed, I am sure I would not want to do major disassembly, and some possibility of painting would be forever gone.

In my lifetime I have painted three cars, the most recent one occurred in 1973 or 1974, I cannot recall. It was acrylic lacquer, so I could rub it out. That made it easier for the novice — me.

Frequently at street rod events you will see cars in progress that are having their mechanical and body work done, and arrive in primer, or some flat finish. It gives a uniform look to the vehicle, and makes it look much better.

My rudimentary understanding of primer is that you would not want to leave a vehicle exposed to weather if it is only coated with primer, due to the primer being porous to water, enabling rust. Does primer-surfacer stop that? What are the street rodders using?

What equipment would a person need to be able to do what I will in this moment term utility painting. A beginning would be painting under fenders, under floors, frames, all the not-very-cosmetic-places that we still want painted in a way that matches? What is the paint to use for those kinds of places?

By equipment, I am meaning spray gun, water filter, and whatever else minimum requirements might exist.

What are the alternative paints available for the military trucks? Are they semi-gloss or flat? What is it like to spray that kind of paint? Is it any easier than a typical, gloss paint?

I am thinking that spray cans would not yield the results I want for what I am calling the not-cosmetic kinds of painting.

Making this more specific, my M37 is now fire truck yellow. If I am ever going to change the color, this is the time, so I can cover the yellow. The truck has low miles and the sheet metal is pretty nice, with essentially no rust. If I am ever going to remove the cab to do something with the floor, now is the time.

I am thinking this M37 is a great project for the upcoming 25th anniversary rally in Fairfield, and also a great project to develop a bunch of M-series service and renovation content for the magazine.

Discuss.

Note: I am also interested in articles for the magazine on this subject.

[Charles Talbert]

About to head out to a family reunion; so not much time right now.

Your question concerning primer taking on moisture; that is true, it most certainly will.

What we do is this, first the piece is blasted back to bare metal, then coated immediately with phosphate, which will hold off flash rusting as long as the piece is stored indoors. Handle with gloves or rusty finger prints will show up. If the piece has to have welding or leading repairs, that is the next step. Once completed, wire brush buff any flash rusted areas from handling, etc and retreat with phosphate. The phosphate leaves a white film when dry that can be easily rubbed off with a burgundy scotch-brite pad.

Next step is to prime with epoxy, 2 coats. This will cure to a waterproof sealed tight coating. The piece can then be stored indefinitely until you are able to address minor issues with body filler which can be done right on top of the epoxy.

Once that is completed; sand epoxy with 400 grit paper, next comes 3-4 coats of high build primer. When cured, if the job has been done right at each step, you can now sand with 600-800 grit paper in preparation for paint. If it needs to sit a while before sanding, no problem.

Each step in the prep process is extremely important to a nice paint job. Pay attention to detail along the way. Be sure you have it right before moving on; rest assured any flaw in your prep will be seen right through the new paint. If the paint has gloss, any flaws will be magnified in a huge way.

[The Other Ross]

Gordon,what you need is a Tip HVLP turbine.Google Tip Canfield,Ohio.This is what I used when I started painting,it is very novice friendly and perfect for practicing in non critical areas.

[Gordon Maney]

Gordon,what you need is a Tip HVLP turbine. Google Tip Canfield,Ohio.This is what I used when I started painting,it is very novice friendly and perfect for practicing in non critical areas.

I gather these guns can be used with a normal compressor regulated down? Is that how you do it?

[The Other Ross]

I gather these guns can be used with a normal compressor regulated down? Is that how you do it?

No,they are powered by an air turbine,constant flow of warm dry air.It all comes together as a self contained system.

[712edf]

I have used HVLP (high volume low pressure) sprayers alot over the yrs. They are great for the novice spray man. The gun itself is very similar (not identical) to a conveniental air spray gun, it just uses a continuously running turbine (sounds like a shop vac) instead of a compressor/tank.

Used to be you had Acrylic Lacquer (which Gordon mentioned), which used thinner & was sanded between coats & could be "rubbed" to get the finished look..... and Acrylic Enamel which used a reducer and the rule was basically "what you spray is what you get, so don't boo-boo." There were different reducers for different temperature/humidity ranges if I recall correctly.

Now there is so many automotive paint products & systems out there I don't know which I'd go with.

Bucky

[Matthew Ziegler]

paint

Gordon, I'm by no means a professional bodyman, but I've had pretty good luck with an el cheapo hvlp gun from harbor freight, I think it cost about $40. I painted my truck with acrylic urethane from hotrod flatz, they have all kinds of low gloss paints for the ratrod guys as well as some camo / military colors. Check them out at www.tcpglobal.com or google Hotrod Flatz. Get a good respirator, after smelling this stuff you'll understand why it can't be healthy.

[Gordon Maney]

I would like to do — if possible — something allowing me to use my compressor, and not have to buy an expensive air flow device that is dedicated to a paint process.

[712edf]

I would like to do — if possible — something allowing me to use my compressor, and not have to buy an expensive air flow device that is dedicated to a paint process.

Understandable. And if your tank is large enough capacity all you need is a good spray gun. Also I would recommend a inline gauge/regulator "at the gun" in addition to whatever you may have on the outlet of your compressor. For me is was handy to be able to make pressure adjustments at the gun while I sprayed.

Some guns are siphon type which have the canister on bottom, others are gravity & have it on top.

Bucky

[Gordon Maney]

Prior to the advent of the HLVP guns, when all that existed were the ones that made lots of overspray, it was suggested to me that a gun with a remote cup would be good due to how much flexibility you have with regard to spraying with the gun out of position. You can spray an overhead surface, a vertical surface, or a horizontal surface, all equally well. I like that idea. No paint dripping out of a vent hole.

[712edf]

Prior to the advent of the HLVP guns, when all that existed were the ones that made lots of overspray, it was suggested to me that a gun with a remote cup would be good due to how much flexibility you have with regard to spraying with the gun out of position. You can spray an overhead surface, a vertical surface, or a horizontal surface, all equally well. I like that idea. No paint dripping out of a vent hole.

Yes those are an option too & require less frenquent refilling, the pressure pots of yester-year.

Bucky

[Charles Talbert]

Beginner tips

A pressure pot type outfit is great in commercial application, (industrial) stuff, but is not for vehicles. 3M has a cup system out that works with your gravity HVLP gun that replaces the cup on your gun. You can turn the gun in any position without any dripping and it isn't a real expensive set up. The system is available to fit most popular brand guns.

The turbo outfits, I'm not a believer. Their advertisments sound along the lines if it's to good to be true it usually is; but I haven't used one so I'll stop there.

As expected, higher end guns that better atomize the material being sprayed will do the smoothest, slickest, job. The better the atomization, the smoother the material will lay down; so a cheap gun that offers poor atomization will not do the nice job that a top end gun is capable of regardless of how good the operator is at his trade. Todays paint products also play a huge part. You don't have to use the highest price materials to get a nice job; but using the material you choose per instructions is critical to the utmost. High quality air filtering is a must, even trace amounts of moisture in the air will really botch a paint job bad. Not using the best respirator or even a full face mask with a fresh air pump will botch your lungs really bad, especially if spraying urethane product. I'm not talking about it smells bad either, that stuff will kill you.

Paint your truck indoors if at all possible. Even make shift plastic enclosures with a cheapo exhaust fan makes a huge difference as it keeps out debris and offers you a great deal more control over the elements than you would otherwise have.

HVLP, (high volume, low pressure) many think the low pressure is related to the air needed to run the gun. NOT. This is tied to environmental regulation which states the max amount of air pressure at the spray cap not exceed 10 psi. We have 2 HVLP gravity paint guns, a Sata that requires 29 psi at the gun entry port to = 10 psi at the cap, and an Iwanta that requires 19 psi at the port to = 10 psi at the cap. A regulator with a gauge at the entry port is a MUST to control this closely. Don't forget the inline moisture filter here also. Pressure must be constant and you must have a compressor well capable of keeping it there with plenty of reserve. Depending on the ID and length of your air line/hose combination; a huge amount of psi can be lost in a 50' length of hose. You will likely need a constant 90/100 psi at the compressor outlet to hold a constant 10 psi at the air cap of your gun. If your compressor is not capable of doing that and keeping it constant with reserve, you can't get a nice paint job. This is just touching highlights, there are inumerable issues that must be paid close attention to make the best job happen. I know you were basically discussing beginner tactics; what I've mentioned is mostly what you need to pay close attention too at the get go. If you can't meet these requirements, you are in trouble at the start from an equipment stand point.

Reducer in your paint is also a huge factor for a good job. We never use anything except the slowest evaporating reducer, most reps refer to that as tropical temp reducer. This will allow the paint to stay wet long enough to get over large panels. If the reducer flashes too quickly, you will get overspray and a sandpaper look and feel before you can coat a panel. The faster flashing reducers are meant for small areas of repair, such as a fender like an insurance job at a body shop. Faster flash on a small panel is fine, but a larger panel such as an M37 hood; using fast flashing reducer will produce a disasterous result, the warmer the temp, the worse it will be. You will also have to increase the amount of reducer in the blend on larger panels. Amounts recommended on supplier spec sheets will be for smaller panels; thus mixing ratios on the sheet will not be correct if painting large panels and certainly not for an entire truck. The first rule of thumb is to keep the paint WET until you can apply a full coat to whatever you are spraying. When finished, give the reducer time to flash off before applying additional coats. Exactly how you need to handle this only comes with experience; every job is different for scores of reasons. Each job will require a careful set up of equipment and operator technique, start out with smaller panels to get all this perfected, then go for the whole truck once you have it down right.

[Chewie]

That is why some people get paid a lot of money to paint vehicles. Attention to detail. My brother-in-law is a body man who made a lot of money because he was good at painting. Still does a few on the side down south, but he got out the business because that stuff can be deadly.
I worked with a guy once who painted a truck over the winter using implement paint. He painted it in a day, with a brush, and then spent the winter buffing every piece, one at a time. Turned out nice, but seems a lot of work.

Van Sickle offers a clear coat for its tractor enamel that might be easier to maintain. I think if I paint my M37, this might be the route I go. Maybe even the crewcab...

http://www.vansicklepaint.com/tracto...tomcolors.html

[712edf]

Good post guys!

I once bought some paint & enamel reducer in January, then waited til April or so to use it. I got some dry spots because it was drying too quick & I wasn't fast enough with the gun to keep my wet edge on the whole vehicle. It turned out ok for me being a beginner, but it could have been so much better had I used the correct reducer for the conditions.

Bucky

[Desoto61]

Great info! Ironically my first practice with my HVLP gun will probably be spraying cabinets for my kitchen remodel, but I've been trying to get my head around some of this stuff as this type of work is quickly approaching for my project too.

One of the things I've been wondering about is the water-born paints. Seems like where the industry is heading, and I've heard they are different to spray than the conventional systems. Just wondering if it might be worth building that into your learning curve now vice later. Plus some of the differences seem like they would be beneficial for the hobbyist, environmental benefits aside.

I'm with Gordon though. I figure I'll practice by spraying the frame, axles, and misc suspension pieces where perfection isn't as critical, then move to more visible areas as I get some practice.