Dana 60 size axles for M37

[Juan]

Bruce, got a couple questions for you,

Why are you using D60 spindles and hubs modified for the old Budd bolt pattern?
Is it possible to use the D60 shafts with the oem spindles and hubs? Of course with a custom made flange.

I'm asking cause in my M37 I have a D60 front with the dodge knuckles press/welded in, and It would be great to use D60 shafts with u-joints instead of the oem ones with tracta joints. I did this to keep the oem looks and still have the possibility of using 4.10/4.56 gears.

I know you will ask, I'm using power wagon front axleshafts (wider track than the M37) cut and splined on the inner ends to match the D60 30 splines side gears.

[Bruce B]

Juan,i am using d-60 spindle w/m37 hub(or a ffpw hub will work). the d-60 hub in one of the pictures is a rear hub i cut up to make a bushing that i found later was not needed . originally i thought the m37 hub would work on the d60 spindle by using the m37 stk inner bearing and race and the d60 outer bearng w/m37 outer race.
at the final assemblly i realised the outter bearing combo did not work. the taper on the bearing was differnt from the race. at that point i was able to use a differnt outer bearing and race and continue with afew mods to the plan.
the stk spindle would be very thin after boring it out to accept the 1 1/2" axle shaft.it has to be bigger than 1 1/2" to allow for runnout.
d-60 spindle ID=1.520th
m37 spindle ID= 1.450th
dint feel the m37 spindle after boring would have enough meat left to be safe.you would be into the keyway at the threads. the whole thing worked out for me using the d60 spindle,a modified d60 caliper bracket and my m37 front hub that had the rotor flange already welded on.
as of now no progress has been made on the last post relating to the drive flanges.hope to get somthing done soon though. as always hope this makes sense and sorry for the poor grammer and spelling. BB

[Juan]

Bruce, it makes a lot of sense and I've got the idea.

I didn't have the spindles ID and axleshaft measurements with me, cause all those parts are on my truck and It's my daily driver.
I thought that maybe the D60 axleshaft will fit inside the Dodge spindle, cause in my rear axle (D70 centered) I'm using two Dodge front axle spindles bolted to flanges welded to the axle tubes, and the spindle ID is ok with the right runout clearance. It would have been to nice to use D60 axleshafts with just a hub flange swap (in my hybrid axle case of course) I already have the 30 splines side gears inside.
You are right, shaving 0.070" from the inside of the spindles would compromise it's strength, I certainly don't want to mess around with a spindle that can let go a wheel/hub at highway speed. Scary.

I don't trust too much the oem axleshafts and the tracta joints , although I still have to brake one. I'm trying to find a replacement and your solution is tempting.
I will try to find a D60 spindle to research mating it to the M37 hub, What kind of D60 did you use? Chevy, Dodge?.

I'm an oil burner fan too, I have a Chevy 6.2 diesel in my M37.

[Bruce B]

Juan, true d-60 front outters will fit in the m37 spindle. they are
30 spline X1 3/8". so if i am understanding what you are running you would not have to change spindles to use the above. you could change your front side gears to 1/ 1/2" X 35 spline,get sum inners made to length and use true d-60 outters with a stock late model dodge 30 spline drive flange redrilled from 8 bolt to 6 bolt pattern or drill the hub for 8 bolt pattern.
you might have to custom make the length on the outers as well, it all depends on the depth of the drive flange and stk spindle locates the hub differntlly than the d-60 spindle.
there would not be much strength advantage but would be doable fairly easy in your case.
what i am refering to and using are actually stk d-70 outer size or after market d-60 upgrade size.1 1/2" 35 spline. these require the stk spindle to be bored or upgrade to d-60 spindle.i used dodge/chevy spindle but after the outter bearing change that came after my completion i think a ford spindle might work better.the fords are cheaper and easier to to find used also.
BB

[Juan]

Now I see the light, you are using bigger than std D60 axleshafts (35 splines), that makes sense with 44 boggers and diesel torque.

I think I will try to go with stock d60 30 splines axles, I'm running 35" tires.
Do you think that D60 axles are not mouch tougher than dodge oems?
I thought that even D44 axleshafts are tougher than M37 oems.

[W_A_Watson_II]

Do you think it might work to use the larger inner axles, but the standard D60 outers? It would move the weak point out of the differential (most difficult fix) to the outer a little easier to fix should you brake an axle rather than a U-Joint?

[MasterYota]

Most D60's (front) come stock with 1.5" 35spline inner shafts, and the smaller 30 spline outer stub shafts. If a set of stock outer stubs are ordered, but in Chromoly rather than stock alloy, they would easilly be as strong as stock alloy 1.5" 35 spline stubs. They are available from many axle vendors in stock, and aftermarket dimensions. The rarer D70 front axles (newer open knuckle design) have 35spline 1.5" axles throughout. At least thats what I've been lead to belive.

As for strength - the D60 is far superior to the stock axles in my opinion. The ring and pinion are similar in size, but materials, and machining accuracy would be far superior on the newer stuff. I would even consider a D44 to be comparable to the original axles provided the axle shafts where upgraded to Chromoly units to offset the size difference between the stockers and the D44's.

The upgrades available for either the D44 or D60 would make it a viable option over keeping the stock setup. If looking at a D44, choose the 3/4 tonne model over the 1/2 tonner, as it had heavier wall axle tubes. The rest is the same however between the two front end variants (at least with the GM units, bolt pattern aside). Dodge and IH D44's may be different.

[Bruce B]

keep in mind if you do use the stk spindles you still have to increase the length of the spindle indexing where it plugs into the knuckle halfs.the d-60 joint needs more area inside bell and increased thrust #s.
IMO a 1 3/8 4340 d-60 size 30 spline outer w/stk ujoint would be about the same in strength as the d-44 1 3/8" w/hi strength ujoint. add a high dollar
d-60 ujoint and chances are the outer shaft would break first??? that might put the "fuse" in the area some are looking for.
for me i am gunna throw everthing inside as strong as possible hoping the "weak link" to be traction. i KNOW this will never be the case unless i am Rockwelled but it is fun trying.BB

[Juan]

Now it's starting to look like a plan, I already have a D60 front with Dodge Knuckles. (actually it started life as a chevy rear axle but that's another story)

Now from what I understand I only have to get a set of 35 splines D60 inner axles, a 35 splines ARB locker (I have to replace the side gears anyway), D60 std u joints and a set of 30 splines D60 outer axles.

Then all I have to do is move out the Dodge spindles indexing in the knuckles?
Is it possible? sounds too easy...
How much do I have to move out the spindles?

If I want to go tougher I still have the chrome-moly option, and I move the fuse link to the outer axles and hub flanges.
It's so tempting,
It's only money...

[W_A_Watson_II]

keep in mind if you do use the stk spindles you still have to increase the length of the spindle indexing where it plugs into the knuckle halfs.the d-60 joint needs more area inside bell and increased thrust #s.

Bruce,

"spindle indexing" Are you saying the center pivot point of the Tracta Joint is further outboard than you want for the D60 U-Joint as it will not clear if it's centered the same? Or are you saying the outer D60 shaft needs to be longer than stock to fit inside the M's spindle? Or that the inside of the spindle where it attached to the knuckle needs some releaf to clear the U-Joint?

[MasterYota]

Now it's starting to look like a plan, I already have a D60 front with Dodge Knuckles. (actually it started life as a chevy rear axle but that's another story)

I think I'd like to hear this story....

The primary weak link in the D44 is actually the stock carrier/cross-pin (under offroad use anyway, as I've been told). The ujoints and the locking hubs seem to grenade at about the same time (usually before the carrier). A full carrier replacement locker will solve the weak carrier issue. Most of my experience with blown D44 parts is usually due to old and fatigued axle shafts. I'm quite sure that a new set of even stock shafts would stand up to a fair amount of abuse even with a 35-37" tire on the end.

Contrary to popular thinking, I've discovered from experience that a front locker will actually reduce breakage; as an increase in traction usually allows for more finese and control leading to less "hammer down" driving.

[Bruce B]

the spindle index is the 5/16 lip that is on the back side of the spindle. this lip supports the weight and the 5 bolts hold the spindle into the knuckle.to make enough room for the added length of the d-60 yokes and allow for thrust you must do one or more and/or a combination of the following.

1-machine the backside of the spindle (might be enough meat w/stk spindle, d-60 spindle has more but is it enough) you decide??
2-machine some off the backside of spindle and some off the thrust area of
the outer yoke.
3-add a spacer between the spindle and the knuckle.

if you choose #3.
#3 w/stk spindle the index length must be increased to protrude thru spacer and into the knuckle.
#3 w/d-60 spindle,index length and index OD must be increased as well as the dodge 5 bolt knuckle pattern drilled into the spindle.

i chose to add a spacer for the following reasons -
A-my spacer doubles as a caliper bracket(see pic of spindle,caliper bracket, knuckle assembley on page one of this thread)
B-by not machining the thrust of the outer, if i ever need a spare, no expensive machining required.
C-the combination of the spacer, d-60 spindle,and the drive flange worked out with the GM length outer.
D- my hub that already had the rotor flange welded on from my previous setup lined up with the rotor by using the straight caliper bracket(between the spindle and the knuckle as a spacer.

everthing from the knuckle(mounting surface of the spindle) on out is going to by affected by the parts you choose.ford spindle,GM spindle,stk spindle,brand or style of drive flange,GM outer axle,ford outer axle????

the the d-60 inner is the correct length from the thrust to the center of the ujoint,but has to have the bell profile machined into the yoke.the inner axle also has to be large enough directly behind the yoke to allow for the larger 1.518 seal/bushing surface to be machined. most axles neck down in that area to allow clearance in the housing tube. so that prolly means no resplining junkyard axles to save $$$
a stk d-60 outer is 3/8 more than the inner from center of ujoint to the thrust area on the yoke. that is why you must choose 1,2,or 3 above.since the inner yoke dictates the pivot and is correct for this app. the outer can be manipulated to accommadate your preferance in parts choice.
another weak point in the m37/ffpw fronts are the spindle bolt threads in the knuckle. clean them real good with brake clean and a fitting brush and inspect the threads.most often rings of threads will be missing or come out with the cleaning. add a heilcoil if nessasary.i dont recommend using bolts but if you must install them with blue lock tight. i use grade 8 studs and grade 8 flanged mech. locknuts.
i like to weld them to the knuckle from the inside(knuckles halfs must be off the truck for the weld version).if you dont want to weld the studs use red locktight. BB

[Juan]

This whole thread is worth a million bucks Bruce, all the hands on information is great and spares us a lot of R&R. Thanks.
I will start buying parts as soon as money shows. (that's the tough part ha ha)

Keep us posted on your upgrades.

[TK064]

Just checking in to see if there was any movement on this project. Thanks for the help