Dana 60 size axles for M37

[MasterYota]

Should you find that the D60 shaft idea dosen't work, I'd like to suggest a birfield joint from a toyota Land cruiser or mini truck. The Axles are the same diameter as rear Dana 60 units (1.31") and use 30 splines at the differential and hub end, with 27 splines into the Birf itself. Aftermarket chomo shafts and birfs are available in both Chromo, and 300M material and are also available in custom lengths.
The chromo units have been tested and show to be as strong as a 35 spline 1.5" d60 shaft (not chromoly)The Birfield might fit better within the Dodge ball end on the axle. Toyota hubs and drive flanges are also external mounted like the M37. This might be another source for axle upgrades if someone looked further into it.

keep us posted.

[pieter]

Bruce sent me two more pictures:





Rest of the photo's:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmvliet...7615727954189/

[Bruce B]

MasterYota,
I have owned 5 toyota mini trucks before the dodge bug took hold and thats the first thing that came to mind as a replacement. I looked into the birfield/longfield joint but at the time I thought this would be much better. but now I am thinkin the Dana 60 conversion might work for me and the way I use my truck but to mass produce a axle upgrade that would be marketable the birfeild would be a exolent choice.
I think you could get a batch made with 16 splines X1 3/8" and still be strong enough to break a axle before the splines would give. they also are stronger while turning than a comparable strength u-joint and need to be supported like the dodge with a axle tube bushing and a spindle bushing so it would be a easy transition.
the ujoint style should only be supported at the spindle and the side gear. danas are supported in the spindle and the oil seal is next to the inner splines.this lets the axle get longer and shorter when turning which is the nature of a ujoint style joint.that is the way it is described but it is actually more of a side to side motion. if you look at any dana the axle has room in the knuckle end of tube while turning and the slight pivot point is at the side gear.that is why the seal is so close to the splines.
(there are some aftermarket dana axle tube outter seals but they are a floating type seal designed to keep trash, mud sand out of the tube not as a oil seal).
The ujoint style inner axle I will be using has to be supported like the stock one at the end of the axle tube. there is know way around this since the tolerances are so tight at full turn. that is why I made the inners use a stk bushing and oil seal.I will be using no needle bearing in the dana 60 spindle only a bronze washer for thrust.that is the way toyotas converted to ujoints run and also the way I had to run the 44 setup. The 35 spline drive flanges are real tight and may not allow for enough flex even wo/ the spindle needle bearing. will see what happens soon. BB

[Bruce B]

Keith,
Thanks for the "Props", I think i am way past the feasible point. prolly should have just Rockwelled or Mogged and got it over with. would have been cheaper too.HAHA. but i like my setup with the M37 front also.
I asked four local bearing sales companies for the bearing race combo i needed and they all said it did not exist. i called a out of state supply and they had a combo that i think will work. i orderd two and will know soon if we were on the same page, doesnt seem possible after four "NOs" but that i why i went ahead and made the following.
The last two posted pics on page 3 are,
bearing and race "A" are stk dana 60
bearing and race "B" are stk M37
"C" is a bushing i made out of a dana 60 rear hub (picture above A,B and C).
originaly i thought bearing "A" fit with race "B" but found out way to late the angles were not compatable. if i now combine bearing and race "A" with bushing "C" it will allow the M37 hub to work on the dana 60 spindle.
if the bearing and race i orderd does not work i can atleast proceed for a possible "YARD test at some point. Thanks again to Pieter for the picture posting. BB

[Bruce B]

I rec. the outter hub bearing and race combo I orderd for M37 hub to be used on the D-60 spindle. The ID and OD are correct but it is narrower than the dimensions I was given.Either they sent the wrong one or I wrote down the wrong #s. Atleast it will be easier to describe when tring to find a taller unit, but this one will work if nothing else is availible. BB

[MasterYota]

Well I looked a little further into the Toyota axle conversion idea, and discovered that complete toyota front axle from a land cruiser will work the best. The LC is orriginally setup as as a spring under, and the spring pads are approx. 28 3/4" apart. This is almost perfect as my tape measure tells me the M37 is 29" center to center. Moving the perches outward 1/4" while converting over to a spring over setup is easy enough to do.

Now the cruiser axle is a little narrower than the M37 axle, but can be made to work with the correct offset wheels. I measured the track width of the M37 (center of tire to center of tire - stock NDT's) at about 61". Now a Cruiser axle can be made out to 58" using bolt on common toyota parts (Mini truck knuckles, IFS hubs). I figure using a 1" wheel spacer on each side with an an 8" wheel and 3" of backspacing will put the center of any tire mounted on that wheel in exactly the same place as stock.

Sorry for the thread hijack, but I've been racking my brain to figure out how I can install my Dually D60 front end, and Hummer double beadlocks but at 78" WMS-WMS its just too wide. And by converting to SRW front hubs, and using the same hummer wheels, it will work for width, but the tires would be so close to the springs, that the truck won't turn. Regular offset wheels and the SRW hubs would still stick the tires out too far. (I'm trying to keep it street legal without adding fender flares and whatnot to keep "the man" happy...

The Cruiser diff idea seems to solve all my problems, all I need to do now is figure out a rear diff that is close to the same width, and strong enough to stand up to the truck. I'm thinking a 36-38 inch tire would be a nice compromise between offroad performance and street driving.

Hijack over...;)

[J Lebowski]

So is that an FJ80 axle you speak of?
What kind of rim could you use to retain an old school Dodge look - or something similar with those axles?
Rears full floaters and offset?

[MasterYota]

So is that an FJ80 axle you speak of?
What kind of rim could you use to retain an old school Dodge look - or something similar with those axles?
Rears full floaters and offset?

Hijack continued ;)

The front axle that I measured is from an FJ40 - with the stock wheel hubs its 55" wide WMS-WMS. Now, if the mini truck solid axle knuckles are swapped onto the FJ40 housing, then the newer IFS wheel hubs can be used on the Mini truck spindles. This increases the width to 58". My thought was to use a 1" spacer on each side with 3" offset wheels (rather than the more common 4" and that would place the tires in the same location as stock. The Diff is a passenger side drop, 9.5" diameter drop out unit. To a casual observer it looks almost identical to the M37 axle.

The mini truck knuckles are stronger forgings than the Earlier FJ40 castings, and have a better bearing and hub design. They also have disc brakes. LC's prior to 1975(?) were all drum front brakes. The later LC's all have disc brake front ends, but I don't belive the wheel hubs are interchangeable with the minitruck IFS wheel hubs. Thus the change to the truck knuckles is required to get the needed width.

Retaining the old school dodge look could be a problem as toyota only offers one wheel pattern - 6-5.5. A beadlock style wheel might keep the military look and distract others from counting the lug nuts.

The rear diff from a 1 ton FJ45 pickup is a full floating unit, and measures out to be 55" wide. This is my first choice for a rear diff, the pumpkin is offset to the passenger side as well, with the same gearing setup. Ratio's are available from 3.73 - 5.29 with 3.73-4.11 being the most common. All the standard lockers and posi's are available as well. The addition of a 2" wheel spacer on either side, and 3" offset wheels should match the track width in the front closely enough.

Most LC's use a 30 spline axle front and rear but some of the earlier units used a coarse 10 spline axle. As far as I know, these can be upraded to the finer axles with a side gear change, and a newer axle.

Some of the later LC wagons use a full float rear diff that is slightly wider and may be an option as well, but IMS these were not available in north america. I know the LC pickup was still being sold in south america and abroad within the last decade, so that may be a viable option for parts.

hijack over ;)

[Keith in CO]

Hijack continued

I've been racking my brain to figure out how I can install my Dually D60 front end, and Hummer double beadlocks but at 78" WMS-WMS its just too wide. And by converting to SRW front hubs, and using the same hummer wheels, it will work for width, but the tires would be so close to the springs, that the truck won't turn. Regular offset wheels and the SRW hubs would still stick the tires out too far.

I've understood that offset steering arms were the key to using the stock H1 rims with a D60 SRW hub, and that if used would not cause clearance issues with the springs.

http://northwestfab.com/dana60steeringarm.html

[J Lebowski]

Isn't the track width of the M37 63"? I think FJ80 track width is the same. Then you wouldn't need wheel spacers. FJ80 Longfields axle shafts are available - nice beefy upgrade.

[Bruce B]

ck out "dean reed"s hummer beadlock wheel web site. you wouldnt not have to buy his, but ck out what how he modifies the hummer wheels. you might could do it your self or have it done locally. the RRR (rebar rock ring) option is the best. BB

[pieter]

An Fj-60 axle will be wider then a Fj-40, so that might be an option as well. FJ-60's are getting past their prime, so they might be easier and cheaper to obtain then FJ-80 parts. All my FJ-60 stuff is buried right now in my garage, so I can't go measure anything. Actually, I don't even have the axles at my house right now ;o(

As far as finding a FJ-45 rear axle, unless you know something I don't; they are pretty hard to come buy. Honestly, if I found a FJ-45 to buy or part-out, I would be running that truck ;o) There are several here in Michigan that I know of, but their price is pretty high: Un-Obtainable comes to mind.

Bruce - if you need drawings or sketches done to do something virtually, let me know. We could draw it up and see what we come up with... Although, the hands-on approach seems to be working well for you.

Pieter

[MasterYota]

I definitely could be out on the track width, I just rough measured it with a tape measure. And FJ80 stuff is probably a little wider, I just don't have one to measure, so I checked out the FJ40 diff I do have.

LC parts do seem a bit pricey no matter what the vintage. I've got a buddy with an LC boneyard that just happens to have an FJ45 rear diff, so we are negotiating on that right now.

As for the hummer wheels, I would be better off to sell the ones I have and order another set. Cross border shipping and exchange dosen't make it worth while to modify the ones I have. And nobody will do it locally. Dean does do nice work, I've checked his site out on more than one occasion. My concern with the tires hitting the springs is due to the back space of the wheel. With a 38-40" tire somewhere in the 12.5 - 14" width range the leading edge of the tire will only be about 8" from the spring if my math is right. I'm guessing the tires might only turn 20 degree's or so in either direction. I don't mind doing 3 point turns, but 6 point get a little ridiculous. Changing the back space would make the turning better, but would stick the tires well outside the front fender, requiring some type of fender flare, and that just makes the truck look funny. Widening the rear fenders is ok, but "wings" on the front is just not cool IMO...

Hence the narrower LC axle. Almost as beefy as D60, but better dimensions. An FJ60 or FJ80 front axle would be better still. The only concern over the last two axles is where the additional width comes from. If the width is gained by making the long side longer, the spring perches will be too far apart. Making them narrower will cause the perch to ride higher up the diff housing, which means the opposite perch will need to be raised to match the same height. If the additional length is on the short side, then there is room to move the perches without the addtional height gain, or the spring spacing has remained the same. Either way, its not a big deal to modify.

[pieter]

If I get a chance, I'll go measure the rear frame on my FJ-60. The springs mount directly under the frame so I'll be able to tell you the rear spring width.
I don't know the WMS to WMS dimension though...

[MasterYota]

Thanks Pieter, I had forgotten that I had to take the spring perch width into account for the rear diff as well. I'm so used to working on centered rear diffs that it totally skipped my mind. That measurement will be handy indeed!