cam install question

[Kaiser2boy]

Your right. Mine is like that because I am basicly lazy. It was sort of that color when I got it so I just followed on with the same thing.
Wow what show do you go to where there are a bunch of them? We live in small town USA up here and there are about five car shows a year. The big one is at ,,,now dont start laughing,,,,its at the Coal Festival in Blossberg. My 37 is the only one there thats Army except for one real nice flat fender Jeep . The Jeep is a trailer Queen my 37 is not by any means and I still got an award. I joke saying the award was for Most square and brutish.

[maineSS]

The "Hi-Performance" 230 cams I have run specs on definitely won't help in truck use- you'll lose bottom end in exchange for top end you can't effectively use. Everyone wants to see more in the 2000 rpm range in high gear- no way to get that stock without more flow, which means a better head (AKA the 1958-59 head). Planing the stock head for more compression cuts flow, opening the chambers up cuts compression- classic flathead dilemma. Over 2000 rpm increases fuel consumption dramatically- you'll feel that in the seat of the pants as gas heads to $5+ per gal. Post your cam specs- I'll compare them to ones I've run.

[Matthew Ziegler]

cam

Well, the truck is back together, I drove up every hill I could find, I'm happy with the results, the power increase is very noticable but not excessive, I also have an electronic ignition I got from Mseries Rebuild, which probably helps a lot. Maine, The cam is .410 lift and 260 duration, not knowing the specs on a stock cam, I'm not sure how much difference there is between the two. I emailed Edhy speed shop, described the truck and the result I was after, this cam was his recommendation, very nice guy to deal with. Edgy specializes in flathead six chrysler parts, and has a flathead mopar powered car he runs at the salt flats, I trust his judgement .

[Kaiser2boy]

Good to hear it worked out. The guy you said is into flat six's, maybe he can find or maybe has a Dodge Coronet 230 six from a 1955 with the Stromberg two barrel carb that would bolt up and make a nice step up but yet still be semi original.

[Matthew Ziegler]

carbs

When I catch up with my budget, I'll probably get the head shaved, friend of mine has a 47 or 48 chrysler sedan with a dual carb setup and dual exhaust manifold off of a heavier truck on it, he also added msd or mallory ignition, I forgot which, It's a heavy car, but has plenty of power. I found out that these parts are kind of scarce and likely won't bolt up to my block. I have yet to adjust the carb for this setup, I'll dig out my vacuum guage this weekend and do it. Edgy who did my cam, also sells high compression aluminum heads and multiple carb intakes that he manufactures, I'm fairly certain the intake takes 3 bolt ford carbeurators, stromberg or holley. For now, the truck has more pep, a little noisier exhaust, I pretty happy. one more thing, there's a military show coming up at the Sussex county fairgrounds in Agusta N.J the weekend after this one coming up, April 28/29. Kaiser I'm pretty sure your in P.A, might not be too bad of a ride, big swapmeet, lots of parts and plenty of trucks.

[Kaiser2boy]

Hmm, Might be fun. I looked up the fairgrounds and it looks like it is just about 170 miles from me so there is no way the Dodge is going but I may go. Its not that I fear the Dodge would break down because the engine and just about everything on it has been rebuilt and works just fine. Its just that going 170 miles at a top speed of 45 to 50 on flat ground and down to 30 on the many hills between here and there would be a real drag for me and the 200 cars behind me. Thanks for the info.

Alan in North Central Pa.

[maineSS]

Matt-

Can you get the complete specs (all valve lifts)? That's what's needed for simulation, or comparison to another cam. If you search "230/251 cam specs", my data should come up.

[Kaiser2boy]

looking at TM9-1840A for ENGINE, DODGE, T-245 it states that the valve lift on both intake and exhaust valves is 0.364 in.
It does not give the duration but it does say when each oprns and closes.
Per the TM it says EXHAUST CLOSES@ 7 DEGREES atc AND OPENS @ 37 DEGREES bbc.
Intake closes @ 36 ABC and opens @ 8 degrees BTC. I guess if you do the math you can figure the duration.

Is there a chance with the 0.410 lift cam of the valves hitting the head if it is shaved too much? I looked around to see if there was a spec on head thickness with no luck. Getting a truck that is 50 or so years old and not knowing if the head has been shaved before or how much it might be worth looking into. What a mess that would be.

[Matthew Ziegler]

checking the head

I was thinking the same thing, talked to a friend of mine who used to play with stock cars he recommended this. Remove the head, thoroughly clean one combustion chamber, stick a quarter inch slab of clay to the inside of the head directly over the valves { modelling clay} reinstall the head with a couple of bolts and turn the motor over by hand. Remove the head and examine the impressions in the clay. should make it pretty easy to check with the tail end on a vernier caliper.

[Kaiser2boy]

A simple but effective test.
While you have the head off , clean and look at the piston tops to see if you find anything stamped on them like 0.10 or 0.20. If you do the engine has been reworked and bored over size.

When I took the head off mine several of the head bolts snapped off. A total pain. It seems the bolts go through the water jacket and can rust away and cause the bolts to get a sort of hour glass shape and weak . On top of that in order to stop them from leaking they need to be coated with sealant so water wont seep up and out. The sealant was as hard as cement adding to the fun of getting them out. I did a lot of mumbling to my self that day for sure. Good luck..

[Matthew Ziegler]

studs

My truck originally had studs instead of headbolts, I remember trying to get the head off to do a headgasket (it blew between 3 and 4) after a lot of fighting, I put some of the nuts back on loosely maybe 8 or ten of them and started it up. that loosened it a lot, but still no picnic. I can't remember if there's anything on top of the pistons, however I have a rebuild tag on the block, passenger side rear that's all in french. Makes me wonder if it's actually a WWII motor? I know it's been changed at some point

[Matthew Ziegler]

the results

Well, I took the truck to the MVPA show in Augusta N.J. yesterday, about a 45 mile trip one way. The cam makes a very noticable improvement. On one mile or so long grade I was able to keep the truck in fourth gear and maintain 30 mph. Last year going to the same show I wound up rowing between third and second on that hill. I'm still not able to outrun my Dad's m725, I admit I tried to. so, for the next step, I'm probably going to get the head shaved. anyone have any thoughts on headers? I'm looking at where the paint is burning off of my exhaust manifold, it's pretty restrictive, looks especially so at #2 and #5 cylinders. Maybe the split manifold via Kansas Kustoms would work almost as well as headers? also keeps exhaust heat going to the intake. I've found directions and kits to plumb hot water to the intake to heat it, however with a 5 core radiatior, it may not warm up very quickly?

[Kaiser2boy]

Great,
Its nice when something actually works like you hoped it would.
Question, This may seem like a dumb question but just how did you put the cam in?
Did you do it with the engine still in the truck and it sounds like you did not remove the head so how did you get it in with all the lifters etc in place ? Is it possible to work it in w/o removing the oil pump/ distributer.
I have had mine torn down and removed all the pistons ect but I did not pull the cam as it looked just fine.

ps. I found out that just honing the cylinders and replacing the pistons and rings and bearings was a waste of time money and a lot of work. I ended up sending it out for a total rebuild....OUCH and a half.

[Matthew Ziegler]

install

Alan, I didn't personally do the install, I know the head did not come off, the oil pump and distributor did come out and the pan was removed to inspect the cam bearings. I pulled the nose off of the truck as a unit, the fenders grille etc were left together, takes two guys to do it but everything is easily accessible this way. I also ordered the gasket set Charles Talbert recommended, it's very complete and American made as well, I can get you the part number and manufacturer if you want. an added bonus was stopping a few minor leaks with the new gaskets.

[Kaiser2boy]

Thanks Matt. It could not hurt to have that info.

Funny you saying removing the nose is a two person job.
I am a one man band out here so anything I do I am on my own. I removed the entire front, every thing from the fire wall to the front bumper soup to nuts and the engine and trans by myself. It is a lot of work but in the line of work I did on cranes I was by myself all the time and way up high so I became a self taught rigger. It makes it interesting.