Rim Swap

[m37powerwagon]

Does anyone know what rims will fit on the 5 lug 4inch bolt pattern??

[Desoto61]

Do you mean the standard Budd pattern? It's bigger than 5 x 4", see the link below.

http://www.powerwagonadvertiser.com/...t=budd+pattern

Outside of a few custom options you have few choices outside of other Dodge vehicles with the same axle.

[m37powerwagon]

I think thats probably the pattern i was thinking about. Do you know if any rims off modern stuff would fit. Im trying to eliminate the split ring design because nobody can work on them.

[Alxj64]

There are a few companies out there that make aftermarket wheels to fit what you are asking for I believe. You want a standard style rim but to match the dodge pattern. I believe that its 5 on 6-7/8". Someone correct me if I am wrong.

I've heard some folks mention that MRW "Marsh Racing" can make wheels for the Power Wagon pattern.

[Desoto61]

Places do still work on them, but they are much less common than places that can't. "Commercial" tire places are much more likely to have the tools and knowledge to be able to service them.

As the thread states, there's basically nothing "modern" that will interchange.

The easiest option is probably Stockton Wheel, but you will loose some of the character of the original rim.

Marsh, like Alxj64 suggested is another option, they can also do bead-locks and such if that's something you would want, but I think they are basically the same concept, new rim with a flat center machined to take the Budd pattern.

Can't speak to either for quality or price, though I'm considering one of these options myself.

Some have had their Budd centers re-mounted in a tubeless rim, you may have a local shop that can do that for you, I think Stockton can as well. My understaning is that the size of the center section basically drives you to using a 16.5" wheel which severely restricts your selection of tires.

A final option (and this one is probably the most difficult and expensive) would be to see if you can find a wheel style that you like and will fit and get the manufacturer to sell you a blank, then have someone cut the right wheel pattern into it. You'll still be heavily restricted on the style and dimensions but I was thinking that if you could get a dually style front wheel it would give you the Budd look, and many of them are fairly plane and should be easier to cut the wheel pattern into.

But we're talking about finding a company making that type of rim with the right dimensions to fit over the stock drums and the correct backspacing and such that will sell you a blank is hard enough, then you need to find someone who can take that wheel and cut the Budd pattern into it.

Only advantage is if you can do all that and they look close to the originals you could probably get a decent number of orders from others like me that are looking to do the same thing.

[Desoto61]

If you do go for something newer consider the width too. Stockton and Marsh will do whatever size you wish. Not sure there's a benefit to a larger diameter with regards to tire selection, but to get the same overall diameter in a more modern tire will usually require going wider than the originals.

In most cases the tire manufacturer will recommend an 8" or wider rim for the sizes you'll probably be looking at. The common Budd wheels are 6.5" wide if memory serves corectly.

[Alxj64]

I like the above idea. I am kinda trying to go the opposite direction myself. I like the look of the old WC combat wheels that I have and for shows and just riding around I wanted to try and re-center those to match the modern 8 lug axles I want to use. I was planning on cutting brand new centers and welding them into my wheel shells, or maybe trying to find a way to bolt them to the back of the two piece wheels that I already have.

Its funny that this thread came up as this past weekend I cut some wheel centers for a friend of mine who is building a Mud Racing truck. We are re-centering a set of 24" diameter tractor wheels to match the Rockwell 2.5 ton wheel pattern. He came up with the design by sketching it on paper, I drew it and then cut it. These are two different pieces of 1/4" A36 that are getting plug welded together to make a 3D look and acheive a 1/2" cross section.




Sadly I don't have a way to press bend the legs to make a "Pressed Center" wheel center. If I can come up with a way to do that, then its no problem to re-create weld in wheel centers. I can make them look as close to vintage stock as possible. However, the customer will still need to find the rim shell for the desired tire size.

Edit: Also, I am not a shop, just a hobby fabricator making the transition from the rock crawling 4x4 world back into the Power Wagon world to finally get around to a restoration.

[m37powerwagon]

Cool.... I was trying to find some wheels that would bolt straight on and wouldnt have to mod. any thing but ive had no luck. Does anyone know of anything that will be direct fit?

[Desoto61]

Cool.... I was trying to find some wheels that would bolt straight on and wouldnt have to mod. any thing but ive had no luck. Does anyone know of anything that will be direct fit?

Umm, not sure what else you're looking for. The other thread basically stated there are no off-the-shelf replacements that use a conventional rim design.

The two companies above can make you a ready to bolt on replacement with a modern rim and the right wheel pattern in just about any size and width you want, they just won't look original. They're also not going to be cheap.

[didget69]

There are no optional Budd-pattern rims that will bolt onto an M37... nothing. Stockton - if they finally came back into service - and MRW are two options for having wheels made. Flat-plate centers, which will limit the offset capable with some drop center rim bands, can be made to be welded into new rim bands of 16"/17"/etc., BUT MARSH (MRW) WILL NOT recommend your use of these wheels on-highway. They state 'Off-Road Use ONLY' to cover themselves from lawsuits.

I have a local buddy that is looking into having Budd centers cut out of stock rims so that they can be welded into an annular ring, then welded into a 17.5" rim. But this is an on-going project, so don't rush to 'call now' for more info, as this is still in design/engineering phase.

'Tanner'

[Charles Talbert]

Marsh Racing Wheels are some of the more flimsy wheels I've seen. No wonder they have questionable liability issues; but I can't say much better for any of the other manufacturer's. Not a single one was willing to stand behind their products when we were looking into having some custom tubeless rims made a few years back. Goes right back to the fact very few are willing to do anything right these days. Everybody wants to make a cheap price the driving force for doing anything. How come people can't see that making a cheap as crap product will not fly very far in any market. Make it right realizing that there is a limited market at best is a much better outlook I think. The mere quality of your product will sell it if you approach a project that way. Most rim builder's think if they build it so it holds up on a Toyota, then it's good. Sure that is a huge market for custom rims, they just don't work out well on real trucks.

[W_A_Watson_II]

I don't agree with Charles's flimsy view of MRW's custom wheels. I have the first set they built for the Budd Wheel Pattern, and have been happy with them, with one exception. I failed to mention and they didn't ask how much my truck weighed. I ended up with a great set of 20 bolt bead locks with a center plate made from three sheets of steel, that make up the sandwich to about 1/2".

The problem isn't the center plate or the tubless portion, it's the number of bolts that hold the bead lock ring onto the wheel. I should have gotten the 40 bolt wheels. However I only seem to brake bead lock bolts while running the truck at highway speeds for longer distances on the road. I've had no off road failures and run my Suppwer Swampers down to 10 psi. Bead locks are built for off road use, not on-road, so I'm a happy MRW owner.

You can pick on any manufacture/supplier of parts for our old rigs, I've broken Foote axles with no concern by either manufacture or supplier, and I'm sure others have had the same issues with everything from NOS to reproductions to custom one off parts.

The reason MRW and almost every other custom wheel manufacture won't rate them for on road use is the amount of FEDERAL BUREAUCRATIC RED TAPE/TESTING that they would have to go through that you could not afford.

If/When I do another set of tubless wheels I plan on a set of 17" with the Bud center welded into them. MRW offered to so it for me back in 04 when I had my Bead Locks built, but I didn't not have any wheel centers to spare at that time.

Will

[Charles Talbert]

The big picture

Will,
The ones I've seen and inspected are not of the design that you have described that yours are; so if I saw yours, I might have a different outlook on them. My opinion is solely based on what I have seen personally. On the other hand I can say I would be very unhappy if I had invested in rims that kept breaking bead lock bolts in any situation. I don't claim to be a rim scholar, so don't get me wrong. Not only is that dangerous, it would seem to me there is something lacking in the area of quality. For me it boils down to this; before I would use anyone's product like this on trucks we build, I'd have to be sold on the quality of the product. I completely understand that an individual who only has concern with his personal truck might look at that differently.

Another issue that always stays fresh on my mind with rims is the fact that I've personally known people who have been killed or injured as a result of a rim failure. I don't mean in causing a vehicle accident, but was simply an innocent person on the ground in the path of out of control flying parts. Any rim that doesn't perform properly, I couldn't care less for what reason has no place around me. Failing bead lock bolts falls dead in that category, so for me, I won't be using any. When I had seen them fail the first time without serious incident, I figure that is a warning from above and I got another chance. The scrap bin would be the next destination for that rim if it were mine. Enough said, I just don't believe in playing with fire.

[W_A_Watson_II]

Charles,

I understand. The first time I had a bead bolt breakage, I was traveling 60 MPH on the highway. I heard the air leak that resulted from the two adjacent bolts that broke. I was shocked I could hear the air leaking out over the truck/wind noise, and I quickly pulled over to inspect why I was loosing air. I expected to see a punctured tire, not two missing bead bolts. I drove slowly along the shoulder to the next exit, pulled off and parked the truck, with a great guy and PW lover who was following me picked be up and took my to get my tow rig.

I had been running 40 PSI, and was surprised when I got back to the truck with the trailer to see the air had stopped leaking and the tire was still holding 25 psi. I loaded up and enjoyed the rest of they rally before heading back home to investigate why I had the problem and make the necessary repairs.

What I discovered with taking to MRW was that the the quick/rapid side wall flex at road speeds and pressure, it actually puts a greater stress on the rings and cycles the grade 8 bolts (that are only torqued to 15 ft.lbs.). This is also when I discovered that I should have gotten 40 bolt wheels rather than the 20's. MRW told me that if I was to contuse doing a lot of on road driving (which is not recommended with bead locks) that I could buy new 40 bolt rings and drill the additional 20 holes in bead rim and add the nut-certs to convert them to the 40 bolt wheels (the new rings woerk as a template as well). However that for off road use I was more likely to break them because of impacting a bolt head against an obstacle.

With my truck built for off road use and only occasional on-road use I've elected to not have to dismount all the tires and drill and refit them with 20 additional bolts each. The other thing I learned in my conversations with MRW is to at a minimum of once a year, and I do it after each hard off road run, is to quickly check the torque on each bead bolt. If the bolt is close to failure they will break while checking the torque and not in use on the road/trail. With the exception of one other bolt breakage I've found about 4 others that were about to break through this method.

Safety is and should always be a top priority in all we do, not only on these trucks be in all aspects of our lives. We can never be perfectly safe, but good practices and caution will go a long way. After I discovered that even with two adjacent bolts breaking that the wheels/tires I have are still strong enough to hold 25 psi and with running bead locks, I'm feel safe with the wheels I have. When I replace the SS's I maw do the conversion then, but see no concern to do it before.

Will

[DrPepper]

Stockton Wheel....buyer beware...!!!!

Their web site says "Under new ownership", but when I tried to get some wheels in late 2010 they wouldn't return my calls and Google has a list of gripes that go for pages.

They may be OK now but I didn't loose any money to them.
Best of luck on the wheels
DrPepper