m37 tubeless wheels

[cgwm37]

looking for m37 16x8 inch wide tubeless wheels. vpw sells 17x8 but i just bought 4 new 16 inch tires. they dont use a new rim or blank, they cut off the back and somehow add to it. also add to the front where the lock ring was. Marsh can make them using blanks but they only have 6.5 inch backspace, where as vpw has 8.5 inches. marsh uses the existing centers. any feedback would be welcome.

[W_A_Watson_II]

... Marsh can make them using blanks but they only have 6.5 inch backspace, where as vpw has 8.5 inches. ...

MRW only 6.5" BS? Is that due to the stock M Budd Center, and the type of drop shell they use?

[cgwm37]

M37 wheels

It must be the type of drop center rim they use. They put 2 inches on the outside and 6.5 inches backspace. Ric Tudor builds the vpw wheels with the 8.5 backspace, but he leaves the rivets in and uses the original wheel. Somehow he adds a piece to inboard and outboard of wheel, so the backspace is all in the back side. I am hoping Marsh will be able to duplicate this.

[Cheyenne Dave]

The only aftermarket wheel that I have seen, using a stock Dodge center, employed a 16.5 rim. This size tire is, thankfully, getting harder to find, with limited size options.

16.5" are notorious for throwing tires, especially at lower tire pressures. They do not have a safety bead on the inside of the rim. Additionally, the 16" rim has a 5 degree taper bead, where the 16.5 wheel has s a 15 degree taper bead making it relatively easy to "drive out of a tire" on side hills or even while performing a simple "K-turn, again, at low tire pressures.

The wheels shown below were made using a heavy duty 17" steel wheel and a 3/8" steel-plate center, but rim width, diameter and center back-spacing options are nearly limitless. I opted for solid centers for budgetary concerns, but there are various shapes and patterns that could be cut out to save weight, add cooling to the brakes and add strength.

Understand that I am approaching your M-37 issue from a civilian PW point of view. I have seen several M-series trucks using plate-center wheels, so the first considerations for you are based on function and form.

If you want to keep the original wheel center, and have to go the 16.5 route, you may consider the combat wheel or other bead-lock systems.

I'd be very interested in hearing about what you come up with, and any other options I may have over-looked. It has been a long week...

cd

[Desoto61]

Marsh and MRW that I ever saw cut new centers for stock wheels like Dave stated, they don't re-use the BUDD centers. I'm sure they could, but like you've seen there's only so small you can go before you've cut off too much of the BUDD center to weld it to anything the way you need.

You might want to check my thread, I have the VPW wheels and posted a bunch of pictures, they cut the original BUDD rim outside of the center section mounting rivets in order to fit inside a new 17" rim they use. So a portion of the old BUDD rim is welded to the new rim. I'd actually have preferred slightly less back-spacing considering the extra width, but they are kind of stuck there due to how the BUDD rim has to mount inside the tubeless rim.

It's much more involved than just cutting the center out and welding it back in as everything has to be true and centered, but it gives them two nice long welding surfaces on each side of the outer ring, keeps the stock center attachment rivets, and spreads the loading across the outer rim. But they are NOT welding new lips to the outer section of the old BUDD rim, I don't care how good a welder you were, I'm not sure I'd ever consider that safe without a lot more testing and analysis.

[Cheyenne Dave]

Those look pretty nice, all right. I was not aware any wheels were being made with Budd centers that were not using 16.5" rims.

cd

[cgwm37]

vpw 17x8 inch wheels

you said with the 8.5 inch back spacing with 37x12.5 tires the lock to lock is close, mrw has a 6.5 inch back spacing, but they have 2 inches on the outside of the wheel, maybe this would be better for bigger tires when lock to lock. what do you think. mrw's are 16x8, with the rivets drilled out. i will try to get some pictures of their wheel and post them. i run 13/38/16 swampers on my 16/6.5 budd wheel, and they have been since 1988, they fit, but i would like to go tubeless, and dont want the tires to be outside of fenders.

[W_A_Watson_II]

Wheel width, tire size and backspacing all play into proper fit and steering. I had my MRW's built to my spec's to provide clearances and place the steering ground contact point as close to stock as possible.

My Flat Plate MRW's are 17x10's with a true 7.75" backspacing (3/4" more than the Budd's). I have 2" of clearance between the tire and the shock, and PS pitman arm shaft, and 1" of clearance between the tire and the grease zert on the steering arm running 39.5x13.50-17LT tires.

[Desoto61]

VPW has put some photo's up of their wheels mounted on a truck with 35 or 37x12.5/17s, which is about where I'd like to be. But I haven't done anything with the rims yet because I want to get one tire and test fit it first (plus the cost of 5 tires that size).

But I'd have preferred slightly less back spacing to move some of that extra 1.5" width of the rim further outboard. On modern tires a 10" width is the recommended width for tires that size, so they are still a little narrow, but far better than the stock 6.5" BUDD rims.

I always thought that the reason they went to 16.5" rims in the past was because the BUDD centers wouldn't fit inside the drop center on a modern 16" rim, though I guess that would depend on the rim. If you look at the photos in the next post taking an inch out of the diameter would have you removing some portion of the center as well, and then you'd have a far different weld connection to the rim that would not be as strong as the VPW setup.

[W_A_Watson_II]

Went back and looked at my drawings and cleaned them up. The following should illustrate why you won't get any more back spacing than the stock wheel with a 16" Wheel/Tire combination. Less is not an issue on the Wheel, but as others have said likely an issue of the drop center rim they are using.

[cgwm37]

m37 17x8 wheels

hello, Desoto, i was condidering the 17x8 inch budd wheel from vpw, but after measuring my vehicle with 13.5/39.5 tires, i dont think i would have the clearance on the inside because of the 8.5 inch backspacing. the stock wheel has 7 inches. what do you think? did you mount your wheels yet and check for clearance?

[Desoto61]

No I have not ordered the tire to test yet. Still trying to determine what tire i want to use. I'm not sure about something that wide. You also end up being narrower than recommended which could make your issues worse. To top it off the M37 axles are a different width than a Power Wagon so i dont know if tjat helps or hurts your application. Ill be sure to post pics whem i fit them, just not sure when that will be.

[W_A_Watson_II]

With 13.5 wide tires and thing over 3/4" more backspacing over the stock Budd Wheel will result in rubbing problems. I have 3/4" more and I rub in the rear and only clear by an inch in the front.