The WC53 Carryall thread .

[Bruce in BC]

looks like that Spokane carryall will get restored

Ad in Bellingham says he will buy every Carryall available…...

[Alxj64]

I wonder if he is buying for Legacy? I know they are in a hard search for Carryalls so that they can keep rolling out the ones like that Green and black one they just sold.

I kept working on my fuel tank... err.. well I spent about 2 hrs on it and the rest of the time I spent helping a friend with his project and doing some art work stuff.



Ordered black fittings for my fuel system.. I didn't want a bunch of bling bling chrome or anodized blue. JIC / AN type fittings.

[Bob Thompson]

Nice work on the tank Alex. And the boxing plates look pretty tidy as well.

[Alxj64]

Thanks Bob! And I am certainly going to use your idea on the brake line straightening when the parts all get here. The fuel system on this Common Rail engine is way too complex. Return lines galore all for the sake of clean, de-aired fuel. The baffles in the tank are there to help cut down on slosh which will cut down on aeration, which in turn will allow my Fuel/Water/Air/Filter assembly function even better so I can thus get as nice of fuel to the engine and high pressure pump as possible. One return line is at 12 PSI, one at 16 PSI, and the last is at 2.5 PSI to 5 PSI. An aftermarket de-airing system is actually cheaper than the factory single fuel filter that still does not have a de-airing setup nor a water seperator so I am just bypassing the factory stuff and running my own system. I will, however, have to have the ECM adjusted by Cummins to turn off the fuel heater or figure out a way to fake a signal to the sensor.

[Bruce in BC]

two requests and one no brainer

(1) When you can will you please fill us in on the fuel/air/water/filter assemble. how it works, gets plumbed, yada,yada.

(2) Fuel heater - what is the deal with that?

(3) Fuel return lines. I know you are darn smart and have this covered but this is for others building a tank or doing a diesel swap. The return lines should not dump into the tank. The return lines should run to the bottom of the tank with a small bend to send the fuel side ways and not straight down. This method makes a huge difference and very little air will get into the fuel. Air bubbles in a tank of diesel fuel can stay suspended for days.

I am working on the Carryall body. Sand blasting, welding, primer, paint, sanding, drilling, filling, seam sealing, sweeping, vacuuming, adjusting, jacking, zip discing, die grinding, creating little filler pieces, taping, washing, hammering, bashing, schultzing and a mess of other things that take up time but no one ever accounts for. AND these steps are done multiple times

[Alxj64]

Take some pics of your progress Bruce! Even if its the same thing every day, people love to see Carryalls! I know I do.

In regards to the fuel return, by all means I am going to be submerging my two lines. I have a third return line that I may be able to T-connect into a return line but I am not sure yet.

Yea, factory engine setup has a fuel heater for the diesel fuel and it monitors fuel temp. I need to give the ECM a signal that it recognizes to prevent the ECM from doing something dumb for fear of fuel gelling or altering the injection pulse based on visocity / temp parameters.

As for the fuel / air / filtration.. Here is a quick video of a similar system that I plan on using. Not the exact one but very similar. Common rail injection engines are super finicky over air in the fuel, moreso even than regular mechianical injection engines. The air seperation companies advertise notable power and efficiency gains from de-aired fuel. I'm going to try and tap every last ft-lb of torque out of this little engine that I can. Lee said it would roll 70 mph with his 4.88s and OD transmission on a 120 HP pump Mechanical 4bt. I am hoping my 170 hp common rail engine will do 65 with a 3k lb camper behind it.

http://youtu.be/ujokaEkF8Z0

[Desoto61]

Yea, factory engine setup has a fuel heater for the diesel fuel and it monitors fuel temp. I need to give the ECM a signal that it recognizes to prevent the ECM from doing something dumb for fear of fuel gelling or altering the injection pulse based on visocity / temp parameters.

Sad part is it probably wouldn't be that hard to build what you need if you knew what the computer is expecting for an input/output, but I have a feeling that would be like asking Coke for the recipie. If you could get the voltage or resistance curve for the sending unit it would probably not be too hard to work out a dummy load, but of course if you can get the expected IO design of the software, figuring out your own fuel heater wouldn't be any harder than half the stuff you've already done.

[Alxj64]

Sad part is it probably wouldn't be that hard to build what you need if you knew what the computer is expecting for an input/output, but I have a feeling that would be like asking Coke for the recipie. If you could get the voltage or resistance curve for the sending unit it would probably not be too hard to work out a dummy load, but of course if you can get the expected IO design of the software, figuring out your own fuel heater wouldn't be any harder than half the stuff you've already done.

Yea, I looked through the literature that I have for the engine and its devoid of exact details regarding voltage. I do know that this ECM is on the 5V sensitive side of automotive design, and that makes it WAY ahead of its time as a didn't think the 5V craze hit until like '06 and this engine is an '01.

There is a provision in the aftermarket pump I am using to install a heating element. It doesn't get cold enough here for me to really justify it at this point. As long as the ECM doesn't hang up on it, I should be good to go with or without it installed.

[Desoto61]

Yea, I looked through the literature that I have for the engine and its devoid of exact details regarding voltage. I do know that this ECM is on the 5V sensitive side of automotive design, and that makes it WAY ahead of its time as a didn't think the 5V craze hit until like '06 and this engine is an '01.

No, my 93 Dodge (both now) like to use 5V for the sensor feed voltage. 5V is pretty common in the electronics world. Heck technically my 61 Desoto has a seperate voltage regulator in the gas guage to drop the normal 12~14V down to something like 5 or 6V for all the analog guages in the car. It's mechanical voltage regulator and they are often replaced with an electronic regulator when they go bad.

So is the sensor itself real expensive or is it built into some assembly that would be? Does Cummins have a troubleshooting manual for your setup? I would think it would give you the required information in order to test the system operation. Guess with the right circuit setup you could easily feed it the right resistance and see when the heater circuit kicked in and out. If you were sure you didn't need the heater then you would just wire a dummy resistance into that circuit based on the testing and call it a day.

I hate to "trick" those systems though without understanding what that data is used for completely. If it affects injector timing then a dummy load could also affect how the engine runs when the fuel gets hotter and colder, or if it compares against ambient your dummy load could also cause issues.

[Alxj64]

Well, I did some digging today and discovered that the fuel temp sensor is literally the same part number as the water temp sensor... so that being the case I found one for $27.00 through Cummins locally. Saweet. Also picked up the drain tube for the turbo and a few other misc things my engine needed.

Anyways, I believe that once I get my hands on the sensor, I can machine myself a nice little sender block that the fuel can circulate through so that the ECM can atleast have a signal and then it appears that the heater is just a simple 12V two wire so I can add the heater option to my aftermarket filter system and everything will work as intended. Bleh. Complicated crap with a million fittings. Might I add that the ECM is fuel cooled on this engine... yea, weird huh.

[Desoto61]

Nice, should solve one of your issues pretty easily.

I guess it makes sense, the injector drivers would have to have some pretty decent power draw and need some pretty powerful high-speed switching, which means heat, and using the fuel would be a convenient heat sink that can only help performance in most cases. Just seems like a very complicated and messy way to do it.

[Bruce in BC]

Cummins ECM …..

Is the ECM attached to the block? That might explain the ECM cooling system.

Bruce

edit : here is the third Carryall that I have come across this month. On crags

[Alxj64]

Yea, the ECM is mounted to the block.

^ If I had a little spare money and wasn't so deep into my project I'd go snag that one too. Its a fair deal and close enough to me to be a justifiable drive. Ohh well. Let me keep working on the one I have.

Brake line showed up. This stuff is really soft compared to the hard steel lines I am used to. I am waiting on a few other little things. ATD flare kit and a bender and a few other things deliver today I think. Should get a good chunk of time in on the truck again this weekend. Need to machine my return manifold.

Stuff is made in Canada.. its gotta be good stuff Ehh Bruce? =)

It was literally cheaper to buy a bag of (20) flare nuts and (10) unions, even though I'll only need a few unions than it was to simply buy one at the local autparts store. They are stacking cash at those places hand over fist.

[dirtfab]

Alex, what year is your 4BT to have an ECM? My 96 12 valve had a fuel heater just above the fuel filter. They go bad and suck in air when the wires going into the heater fail. I just pulled mine out and threw it away. Engine runs better and never got air in the system again after I removed it. I think the only electric component on the engine is the fuel shut off.

Tank looks good BTW. You will find outside corners easier with AL vs. inside corners- or at least that was my experience. I find with reverse polarity it is hard to sometimes get the heat where you want it on the inside corners. I'm still a novice with TIG welding AL as well.

[Bob Thompson]

Alex, I forgot to mention: I don't use grease on the drawing blocks, a little bar soap, whatever you use in the bath is great. Grease seems to get wiped off at the throat of the block but the soap goes through.