The WC53 Carryall thread .

[Bruce]

Looks like he's ready to jump in the back Alex?

[Bruce in BC]

Taht Darg looks more like a foreman

and he is thinking
"hmmm what is the deal with this lower tailgate ?

Got in four hours in the shop today , most of it was sorting and cleaning and all of it done in a haphazard way . But I can now walk in front of my bench and about 1/2 the stuff on the bench is destined to go on the Carryall .
A couple of parts got added to the frame , locktight and grade 8 bolts and of courser every hole needs to be reamed because it is full of paint .

[Alxj64]

^ - I wish my shop was that clean! And I wish my Carryall frame had that much paint on it too!

All of this antagonization of progress actually motivated me to go out into the garage last night and do something. I have this slight obsession... and its weird, but my wife is ok with it, so that's a good thing right?

My obsession is with the Eaton HO series of axles... Minds out of the gutter.. its H.... O... ha ha.. The HO52, HO72, and H110 are all great Light truck but HD axles. The HO52 is a 5200# rear, the HO72 is a 7200#... you get the idea. So, I already owned an HO72 axle for the intended use of the WC53, but its buried under a bunch of stuff, and the housing is really rusted, bad off, and the third has a bunch of gunk in it. On my parts shelf is a really nice HO72 third that just needs a new pinion seal. (These are third member axles, similar to the stock WC stuff).

Well, a friend of mine stumbled across one of these and I bought it for a song and a dance. Its only the HO52 axle, but the only difference between the 52 and 72 is the 72 has a load bolt to control ring gear deflection. I pulled the axle all apart last night and wow was this thing clean inside. Oil smelt good and was clean but smelt like old school stuff, not that new sulphur smelling gear oil. There was no burnt oil smell when removing hardware that you sometimes get from a high mileage axle. And the ring and pinion looked immaculate with only minor indications of wear.

My guess is that this axle might have 30,000 miles on it, and light miles at that. I am halfway temped to just clean up and run this HO52 third and not even mess with my HO72 third that's on the shelf. Whats ya'lls thoughts on it? Its basically like trying to say Dana 60 or Dana 70. However the strength difference is only in the ring and pinion and I don't ever see me putting enough load on this truck to ever grenade the ring and pinion because I have the H072 in my Wrangler with 40" sticky compound rock tires and it twists up driveshafts and breaks all sorts of other parts and the Eaton has never even so much as sneezed.

Anyways, pulled the third, cut the brackets off, and then did the same for the HP60. The front is getting dropped off to a friend in a few weeks to have him re-tube it for me in exchange for some work I am doing for him. He has the alignment bar, pucks, lathe, etc. so it will be done correctly.





4.57 gears (32/7) and made June 1, 1965.

[Alxj64]

Gotta love a drop out third...




Blue tip wrench made quick work of the stock brackets.



And then the High Pinion Ford Dana 60 got the same treatment.




So I am working out the numbers on my spring perch width for the re-tubing. I figure to get things exactly where I want them, I am not opposed to having custom inner shafts made.

Can you guys confirm that stock WC front spring pads are spaced at 30.75"? Or am I measuring wrong. It was dark and raining last night when I pulled the tape.

[Bruce in BC]

Nw don't yah feel better ?

Great shots . From the sounds of things you are using the stock springs . They do not ride very well . Is that the plan or do you have something else in mind ?
The M37 drive line brake will fit the back of a NP205 with very little work , Not sure what your plan is for an emergency brake but that is one route to consider . If set up properly the drive line brake has great holding power .

you take care

Bruce

That was a good write up , I will read it again . Be interesting to see an article on those rears in print - hint hint

[Alxj64]

Great shots . From the sounds of things you are using the stock springs . They do not ride very well . Is that the plan or do you have something else in mind ?
The M37 drive line brake will fit the back of a NP205 with very little work , Not sure what your plan is for an emergency brake but that is one route to consider . If set up properly the drive line brake has great holding power .

Thanks Bruce! As for springs, I am going with the same perch spacing as I am going to keep them under the frame rails as they are now, but am going with longer and wider in the front. I have the intentions of getting custom packs built from Detroit Spring, or Alcan, or someone like that. I'll get the whole truck mostly assembled, stack all of the interior parts, few sand bags for people and such, and then scale out the truck. Then I can send the dimensions and weights for the springs that I want built so that I can get a soft riding spring, with the correct ride height, without any guess work, or worries of ride quality. My other intention is to use these...

http://gabriel.com/our-products/car-...van/hijackers/

to help make up for any ride height or load capacity loss to "tune" in the truck to the best ride/load carrying quality. Plus they kinda look like the old M37 shocks which is actually how I found them... Looking for something with a dual shell canister body simply for appearance.

I'm also making plans for a Sway bar for the front and an anti-wrap bar for the rear. These are all plans and are subject to change, but I want to get a good bit of steering angle out of the front so keeping the spring spacing narrow and running a sway bar I can get the most steering angle without the tires hitting the springs. I've also been contemplating the 41" MPT.

As for the parking break.. thats great advice! I am running the divorced NP205 but I believe the cases are the same. The Allison also has mounts for a parking brake provision. It would be great to get the M37 system to work because I would love to be able to use the stock parking brake handle inside the cab of the truck!

[Alxj64]

Today is my truck's 70th Birthday, according to the serial number and build card info from the Chrysler Historical Services. I mean to scan the card in for the WW2 dodge forum. I think its cool that this truck was built exactly one year after the attack on Pearl Harbor. As its present, I am rolling it back in the shop to give it some more TLC and hopefully finish up the rear cross member and gate by Christmas/ New Years.

[Alxj64]

Had a slight change of plans with my front axle... Since I have to spend all of this time re-tubing, buying new inner shafts, and then still having to buy a locker for the front, and a gearset, install kit, etc...

I already have a 30 spline 14 Bolt detroit locker, which will fit inside of the Eaton Carrier... I already have several complete 4.57 thirds that are in great shape... I still have on the shelf an entirely complete 4.57 Eaton to still use for the rear... So I figure why not build an Eaton front? I have to order new inner shafts either way, whether I re-tube the 60 or build an Eaton! So here we go!

[Gordon Maney]

What will you use for the outer ends, making it a steering axle?

[Alxj64]

What will you use for the outer ends, making it a steering axle?

I'm going to cut the tubes out of the ends of that Ford Dana 60 laying on the floor behind it in the photo above. Thats just an '83 King pin axle so they are much less rare and I don't feel terrible about cutting the ends off of it. I don't have hardly any money into it anyways. Plus I've been wanting to build one of these hybrid Eaton/60 axles for years now. It will still be Ford King Pin Disc brake outers, and 8 on 6.5 bolt pattern. I am also narrowing the whole thing down from 69.25" WMS-WMS to 67" WMS-WMS. The Eaton rear is 65" so having the front about 2" wider rather than 4" wider will greatly improve driveability.

[Bruce in BC]

there goes your high pinion

But what the hey , creativity with limited funds is the foundation of this hobby .
I just ordered a barring tool for my Cummins . I am also looking for the KSB wax thing but can not find it . There is one wire to the fuel injection pump and one wire at the hack of the head that looks like a coolant sensor . That is it . Not counting the alternator I see two wire connectors and one hard connection that should be the outlet for a oil pressure unit .

Bruce

edit - well I know that my 4bt does not have the later style KSB valve and may not have any cold start advance mechanism . I need to find the early style pictures .

[dieseldude4bt]

Ksb

Not all 4BT's have cold start adv. All three of mine don't they start fine even in the cold. I do like to plug them in be fore cold start.

[Gordon Maney]

But what the hey , creativity with limited funds is the foundation of this hobby .
I just ordered a barring tool for my Cummins . I am also looking for the KSB wax thing but can not find it . There is one wire to the fuel injection pump and one wire at the hack of the head that looks like a coolant sensor . That is it . Not counting the alternator I see two wire connectors and one hard connection that should be the outlet for a oil pressure unit .

Bruce

edit - well I know that my 4bt does not have the later style KSB valve and may not have any cold start advance mechanism . I need to find the early style pictures .

I have to ask. What is the KSB wax thing?

[Bruce in BC]

KSB wax thingie

Kalt Start Bescheuniger = KSB which translates into wax thingamajig in Canada and because Americans have this issue with extra letters in words Wax Thingamajig translates to Wax Thingie .

The purpose of the KSB wax thingie is to advances the timing several degrees by closing a the bleed port in the injector pump .. Pump pressure increases and moves the advance piston against a spring. The piston rotates a cam . Very much like an old style distributor . Injection pump rollers contact the cam lobes and timing is advanced .

at least I think that is what the KSB wax thingie does .

Bruce

going for a walk and think about Carryall stuff

[Alxj64]

There is a gentleman on Facebook who has a massive collection of Military era photos, many of which are vintage dodges. I sent him a message asking for some Carryall stuff if he had it and he shared this! He says he has more too! Search facebook for Recon Military Photos, or just keep your eyes peeled here and I'll keep sharing!