The WC53 Carryall thread .

[Ugg013]

BC Bruce:

Maybe we can get Gordon to move this thread to the WW II section where it belongs.

Jake:

Is that a pigeon carrier on the front fender of that Carryall?

Norm:

I think Jimmie was/is askin when the Carryall name was started, not the actual vehicle. Most of the earlier ones were wood bodied.

Jimmie:

Thanks for the link. I need tp read it later.

Later
Ugg

[MoparNorm]

Ugg,
You think? I thought he was asking when the style started, I'll look it up and see when the actual Carryall name started.
MN

[MoparNorm]

Ah ha!...I had read that before:

"Of slightly less antiquated origins, the term "carry-all" first saw print in 1837, and had lost its hyphen by '51. A common, 4-wheel wagon, the carryall seated 4 and had some space for luggage. Unlike the word "suburban," "carryall" is not of the King's English but originated in the US, though it may have been influenced by "carriole," the French word for cart. Also, "carryall" has always been a noun, whereas "suburban" has been most commonly an adjective for half its life -- a situation that likely caused subsequent difficulties in registering it as a trademark.

With the beginnings of railroads in America, the word "depot" was applied to train stations while the British usage leaned toward "terminal." Combined with "hack" (a vehicle for hire) we got the term "depot hack," which, with "carryall" and "break," all began being applied to forms of the versatile passenger/goods wagon.

Although the fine distinctions of nomenclature were never rigidly adhered to, a buggy was lighter than a wagon, and both had a single transverse seat. The carryall had a second transverse seat and the break had a seat placed longwise along each side, behind the 2 seats of the carryall. There was often an awning or roof for shade, though the break was more apt to be uncovered as it originated as a vehicle from which to shoot game. (From the term "shooting brakes" for game thickets) The styles typified by the depot hack and the carryall saw wide use as business pick up and delivery vans, as family conveyances, and, with the rise of public education, as rural school buses.

Both "carryall" and "suburban" began being applied to automotive models in the early 1920's. Dodge listed various wood bodied station wagons as "Suburban" or "Suburban Carryall," and Chevrolet reportedly had several models called "Suburban," although General Motors officially only claims "use in commerce" since 1934. Throughout the 20's, 30's and 40's, there were numerous automotive brands using these two words for model names. Usage and hyphenation varied considerably, often within the same piece of writing.

During the first 2 decades of the 20th century, many automotive brands offered depot hacks, station wagons, panels, and canopy expresses. These bodies were of wood construction and were made by numerous specialty body builders ("coach builders" such as Cantrell, Hercules-Campbell, US Body) The 1923 Star (another brand from Durant, founder of General Motors) is credited with being the first "production" station wagon, and it was likely the first to have been styled by the car company instead of the aftermarket body builder. In 1929, Ford became the first car manufacturer to build its own station wagon body and these were carried on their car chassis.

The move toward placing station wagon bodies on commercial chassis got a boost in 1933, when Dodge contracted with U.S. Body & Forge of Tell City, Indiana to produce wooden station wagon bodies on their 1/2 ton truck & pick up chassis. Known as the "Westchester Semi-Sedan Suburban," this early commercial station wagon was the first to have roll up windows -- front doors only.

In 1934, the name was shortened to "Westchester Suburban" and Dodge was selling them to the army. (This contract was most likely a legacy from Gen. "Black Jack" Pershing, who had used 250 Dodge touring cars in the 1916 campaign against Pancho Villa.) Plymouth also jumped in for 1934, having a similar USB&F wooden wagon body on a whopping 35 of their top of the line sedan chassis. Plymouth was also calling it a "Westchester Suburban"

In 1937, Studebaker also began using USB&F woody bodies for their pickup based "Suburban Car," and Dodge and Plymouth changed roles, Plymouth going to their commercial chassis for the Westchester Suburbans, and Dodge reverting to their car chassis. The following year, Plymouth shortened the name of their wagons to just "Suburban," and by 1941 they were again being built on the car chassis.

In 1933, while Dodge was preparing to sell wood bodied wagons to the army, there is evidence that the steel bodied Carryall-Suburban made its appearance for this Government sale, probably in '34. During '33 & '34, Chevy had a station wagon which was a typical "woody" on a car chassis. Bodies for these were supplied by Hercules, but by '37, the car based wagon was carrying a Campbell wood body and the name "Suburban."

[Bruce in BC]

This is one of the first detail shots of my carryall

This is a shot of the only rust out on the vehicle. The seller sent me the photo and it was possible to zoom in and check out the vehicles condition from home . Personally I think it is wise to have someone check a vehicle out before buying long distance . I am hearing and seeing some real nasty junk turn up.
Check out the rear of the front fender . There is no rust through at all and when I removed the panel the steel was at worse ."etched " There is a slight smoosh in the corner that took some creative work to pull back . Heat and a big hammer. There is an odd wave in the side of the front fender that I have yet to fix. Most likely from the time that the truck was attached by the moose.

The rust out has been repaired and was a simple one hour patch job and will require no filler .


take care

Bruce

[JimmieD]

Well, the answers came out regardless of what y'all thought I meant.

I was most interested in having information added to the thread to help the non-collector better understand the history of the development of this model of truck. That was part of my reason for mentioning the Town Wagon which is its closest later descendent and for inquiring in regard to military/civilian uses of these vehicles.

[Bruce in BC]

here is a shot of the front suspension on my Carryall

You will see some of the multiple paint schemes used on this truck . The red wheel wells might have looked cool in it's day . I have no idea if the red wheel wells were used when the body was black or yellow or green .
Pretty darn rust free for a 65 year old truck .

[Gary Weaklend]

Nice picture Bruce

The paint at least kept the rust down. I painted mine in 1970 and then it sat outside for 20 years so it wasn't too rusted out.

[Bruce in BC]

great archive photo Gary

Your carryall appears to have had a decent body . It is a good thing that so many of them were used in the dry states . Considering the bare metal left between the double walls I imagine that most carryalls would look like NYpaul's under normal rust conditions .


best regards

Bruce

[Ugg013]

BC Bruce:

I always wondered where the knee shocks went. Yeah, I must agree, it's a GREAT idea to have someone ya TRUST check a vehicle out before ya get it if it's a long distance away. Still, ya ALWAYS take a chance when ya get something sight unseen. Fortunately, most of the folk around here are pretty decent, and ya don't get many surprises.

Gary:

So where did ya put the battery? Inside? Under the hood?

[Gary Weaklend]

Carryall Thread

Ugg, I put the battery under the hood on the left side. With an L6 engine there is room by the distributor because of the bumped out area on the fender splash shield. I used two longer bolts double nutted so I would have a threaded bolt sticking up to put the nuts on. Once everything is together you can't get your hand under the battery. Picture below.

Putting disc brakes on the rear now. Got the 10 rivets drilled out using titanium 1/8" then 1/4" and finally 1/2" bits. Wasn't too bad if you follow Ray's instructions to go about 3/4" deep. Less and they will be harder to drive out. More and you may have bigger problems if you don't hit the center of the rivet and drill through the flanges in the axle.

[Ugg013]

Gary:

That's so purty! Talk about limited room, that Poly takes up a whole bunch. I see ya kept the original drivers side runningboard. I'm lookin to see about doin somethin similar to the M 37 for the spare as to be able to keep it in it's original spot. I still have drums all the way around, but the Hydrovac helps a great deal. Keep up the good work.

BC Bruce:

I noticed ya have a different passenger seat up front. The Beast still has it's original jump seat. I was looking to replace it as it's not the most comfortable thing out there, but any of the newer type jump seats just won't work. They'll hit the windshield (with force) when ya open em. So how will folk get into the back of your rig?


Ugg

[Bruce in BC]

Seats options in a Carryall

The seats that can be seen in the pictures are some trash that was not installed by myself . The photos are from the previous owner and show the condition of the truck when I first got it .
I plan on getting a seat that has a back that folds forward. Jeep CJ7 seat bases fold forward and early blazer seat bases do the same . A combination of folding seat base and folding seat should work.
I still think adding 2 more doors would be a viable way to go . To do so i need a set of door frames and doors .

take care
Bruce

[jawgroth]

Door repair

Look at the inside of the door in post #146. What is the material spread on the outer door skin inside the door (sound proofing?) I am cutting out the lower inside of my door right now for a patch panel and will probably blast the inside of the door first but don't know what to do with this material.

Eric

[Ugg013]

BC Bruce:

I don't know about the Jeep seat, but the early Blazer's, both K series and S10 WON'T work! If not careful, they'll bust through the windshield. For that reason, we decided to stay with the original jump seat. Not only does it swing/lift forward, but the seat itself folds. All the contemporary jump seats I've seen stay rigid when opened, even Nissan & Toyota.

Eric:

Unless someone added something to the door, it should just be bare metal. The military didn't go for all them creature comforts back then. Ya know, like insulation or sound deadeners. HA! Heck, even the seats stayed in one place. There was NO adjustment, so if you were over 5' tall, your knees ended up in your chest while driving.

Later
Ugg

[Gary Weaklend]

Jawgroth

It's just 60 year old roofing tar (I think). I'm assuming it was to stiffen up the metal and maybe it provided a little sound deadening. After I had the inner door cleaned up and before putting the window in I used a tube of fiber tar and smoothed it around the best I could. Then I went over that with a spray can of the undercoating sound deadening material. Gave it a finished look and rust protection.