46 Power Wagon Restoration pt. 2

[dieseldude4bt]

Congrats on the first self powered drive!!

[cj7and8]

That is way cool!!! Nothing beats the maiden voyage! I bet your grinnin' ear to ear!

[thrashingcows]

I just spent a bunch of time quickly scrolling through this thread. Great job! I'm thinking of doing a project like this in a few years.

[Desoto61]

Spent some time last week just double checking little things, adjustment of the t-case levers and e-brake cable, as well as tweaking the adjustment of the brake and clutch peddle. Verified and topped off all the fluids, a quick squirt of grease and checking bolts and such. Biggest task was to clean up and install the filler neck as I was getting fuel sloshing out of the opening down the side of the frame and springs. So I blasted and powder coated the original, and picked up some fuel filler hose and a new cap to install temporarily, then took it for a second run last Sunday.

With the little rollers on it the gearing is a little tricky. You really have to wind it out between gears to keep it from bogging, especially between 1 and 2. It's going to take some time for me to get used to the fact that normal 1st gear is actually low and I need to start in "second". The NV4500 I have is really a 3-speed with overdrive and a creeper gear vice a normal 5-speed OD trans. Can't see low being much use outside of off-roading with the gearing in that truck though.

The clutch is stiff but not horrible, it is however very abrupt, not much modulation, it also seems to be weeping somewhere, every so often I find some brake fluid from it on top of the power steering reservoir, which rules out either of the fittings at the front. Might need to swap it, though I'd still like to go a little smaller, I think it will lighten and lengthen the throw.

Biggest issue is that the brakes stick on. The peddle doesn't return all the way causing them to drag. From what I've read that's either a return line issue, which I'm pretty sure I can rule out, a stuck caliper which is possible due to how long the system sat, or a bad hydroboost, which is also possible, and would be really annoying. I need to do some more troubleshooting. Otherwise they seem to work well, though I'll need to work on adjusting the brake bias at some point.

One of these times I'll try and get some video, but I've been mostly concerned with testing the truck to this point. Still, so far so good.

[Bob2]

Desoto,
I have the same problem with my 66 with a 4BT and hydroboost that was rebuilt by Dan Mininger, brakes still grab, have changed the length of push rod, changed return line configuration. and they still grab.

Driving down the road brakes lock up, have to pull over and shut down the engine and wait 2-3 minutes for them to unlock, after that it is good to go all day long with no problems. this happens within 30-45 minutes starting out.

I am completely stumped. thinking it might be the way brakes are mounted?? I am on my second set of pads in 6,500 miles of driving it. First set were gone within 2,500 miles.

Other than that truck is fun to drive with all the people looking at it. Have taken the truck to shows, placed 1st or second every time in its class.

Any body have any suggestions on the brake problem??

Bob

[Desoto61]

Your problem seems different than mine, in that mine don't self apply, they just don't return completely when released.

From the online searching I've done, for your issue what I've seen is that you probably have a problem with the return pressure. I'd check the return line from the hydroboost. If there is any back pressure it can prevent the brakes from releasing as the pressure helping apply the brakes has nowhere to go. I'd look at the return line first. Sometimes they're T'd into the same return as the power steering and even that can cause problems as the shape restricts return flow. most recommend a Y fitting or like mine a separate return for the hydroboost. Which is why I don't think that's my problem, but it could be.

The first step for me is probably seeing if it's the brakes that aren't returning fully, or the hydroboost isn't letting them.

[Desoto61]

Lucked out with the brakes. Decided to start at the linkage and make sure it wasn't binding up, as I started to loosen the bolt sure enough the peddle returned to it's normal resting position.

While the rod on the end of the booster is connected via a ball-joint, the peddle uses a shoulder bolt as a pivot for a metal block with a threaded hole for the pushrod. The stock booster had to have the end cut and the threads added for the linkage. Between that and my bracket holding it there's a slight horizontal angle in the linkage. Once I added a washer between the bolt and peddle everything moved easier. I re-greased all the friction surfaces and re-assembled. The pushrod used to be tough to adjust in the threaded hole, but after it was so light I had to add a nut on the end to lock it in place.

End result is the peddle returns as it should, then it was just time for another test run. This time I used a little toy I got as a gift to try and get some video from inside the cab. It's loud but runs well considering the tiny tires and poor alignment.

My other fix was to get the fuel filler neck installed and a new cap installed as I kept getting fuel sloshing out of the opening and leaking down the frame. I blasted and powder coated the outside of the neck and purchased a new cap. The hose was ordered from Rock-Auto, though they required a 3 ft. section when I needed four inches, so if anyone needs some let me know, not sure what I'd need the rest for.

Working on a few minor things, still waiting for the real gearshift lever to be done, there was some mus-communication. Next will be to get the bed into the garage and start repairing it. Should be much more straight forward compared to the stuff I've been doing, but it's a big heavy beast and moving it is going to be tricky. I just need to wait till I know I'm ready to start since the truck will end up sitting outside while I work on the bed.

[CSCameron]

Nice video, thanks for posting. WOW! It is loud. :)

Clark

[Desoto61]

Yes, I probably didn't pick the best muffler to quiet it down either. Might re-visit that in the future. Of course there's also nothing on the floor yet, and no bed yet to deflect any sound, and even to me the mic in that little camera seems to make it louder than it feels in the cab, but there's no mistaking this thing is not the quiet sewing machine that the flat-head was. The flip side is that you can just tell even from these short drives that it just doesn't care about all the weight in that truck. Plus somehow the grumble just sort of fits.

That 1-2 shift (really kind of 2-3) is annoying though, you really have to wind it out to prevent bogging the engine.

[Desoto61]

Went to move the Power Wagon the other day, and after starting it and letting it idle I noticed oil dripping onto the floor in the garage. It appeared to be coming from the bottom of the bell housing, and was a significant leak.

I had replaced the rear main seal when I had the engine sitting on the stand. Cummins uses a dry seal which comes with an installation sleeve. I had difficulty installing the new seal years ago, and figured I must have messed it up. So up in the air it went to remove the transmission. This required the floor pans to come out, the intermediate shaft, and the transmission. Once it was back down to the seal you could easily see it was damaged.

I had picked up a new seal from Cummins and after getting it home noticed it was the version with the wear sleeve, which on Cummins is a thick metal band with a larger seal designed to mate with the added thickness of the sleeve. I figured it was the wrong sleeve, but upon closer inspection my reman engine had the same sleeve installed, which was why the standard replacement seal had started leaking.

The sleeve and seal are installed as a unit, which requires a special installer tool. Naturally I couldn't find one to borrow and had to order one, luckily I found someone interested in buying the tool from me, so I didn't have to bear the full cost, just kind of an expensive rental. The tool is simple enough but specific to it's task, it did work well though.

Hopefully that will last, it was a good excuse to go back through the clutch, I found some better bolts for mounting the clutch assembly, and verify everything was tight. No leak initially, and it seems to run as well as ever.

[Charles Talbert]

Seal removal / installation technique is extremely important on these, must be done very carefully, especially true with removing the old. Cummins has a tool that serves both purposes. We have had to replace a few that leaked on brand new engines. Some have had a lesser quality design seal installed as new, with replacements being much better. I would assume they tried something that didn't work out too well at some point and decided to change it later. Cummins has made all we have had to replace good, both the cost of the parts kit and have reimbursed us for the labor as well. I have not seen the cheap seals on any of the QSB engines, apparently they never used them there.

[Desoto61]

I've read that there were many revisions of these seals over time. The first replacement I put in was I think a NAPA unit (probably made by FelPro as they seem the only aftermarket source). This one was straight from Cummins. Even comes with the install instructions in the box.

Quad 4x4 makes the install kit I used based off the Cummins unit. Nice piece, and it comes with everything you would need to replace a normal seal. Difference in price between the two kits varied quite a bit, but neither were cheap.

Honestly it didn't look like the crank surface under the original wear sleeve was that bad, but I figured if they installed one during the reman then either they do it regardless or they figured it needed one, and they would probably know better than I would. Plus they had already given me the unit with the sleeve. The sleeve on my engine looked like it may have been damaged by the wrong seal, and the seal and sleeve come assembled and are intended to be installed that way, so trying to install the new seal over the old sleeve seemed like a great way to ruin a $100 seal.

There is a guy on ebay that was selling a more conventional double lip spring seal he supposedly had custom made for the 6bts. Claims it was because of the issues he had at Dodge with the original Cummins seals. Was tempted to try it, but not sure it would have worked with the wear sleeve, and really didn't want to experiment given how much work it is to replace.

[Charles Talbert]

All ours were Cummins branded parts, I imagine built by one of the major seal Companies. Not sure whether the improved design that came about as time went on was a Cummins design or possibly that of a seal manufacturer.

[Desoto61]

Well I'm not sure there was anything wrong with my first replacement seal other than it was designed for use on a regular crankshaft, not one with the Cummins wear sleeve. Supposedly you can get a more conventional speedy-sleeve that would work with the regular seal, but either way I had to go with the version I did.

I honestly doubt I needed to replace the original one, but it seemed like cheap insurance since I had the engine sitting on the stand doing other work on it. So it was essentially an expensive learning experience, but hey, that was kind of the goal of this whole project!

It won't pass for your work, but all things considered I'm still pretty happy with it.

[Desoto61]

Time for bed

Figured it was time to start trying to get the bed rebuilt. First task was to get it in the garage and up on the lift. It was mostly a lot of pushing and sweating since it was sitting in the grass and didn't want to roll on real easily. Some leftover metal pieces helped with the process.

Once in the garage I hung it from the upper rails from the lift arms using some short pieces of chain last used to hang the frame. This was so I could then cut out the floor, which was badly rusted including a few places that were rusted through. First that meant cleaning out all the leftover crud, rust, pine straw and misc junk. I'd never emptied the tool box in the corner, which contained mostly dirt, but a handful of lug wrenches I'll have to sort through eventually. Then I could get out the plasma cutter and make it earn it's keep.

The floor was 3/16" plate as far as I can figure. It was a slow process, and messy, but way faster than trying to use anything else. A few whacks with a sledge afterward and it came out the bottom where I could cut it into smaller pieces and haul it away. I also unbolted the tool box and cut that corner out as well.