New Power Wagon owner! Now what?

[Brutus I]

Well fellas I'm now the proud new owner of a 1948 Power Wagon. It should be arriving on the transport truck later today. I'll post some pictures.

My goal with this truck is to make it as nice as I can but something that I can take out and drive and enjoy. I want to be able to comfortably roll down the interstate highway with it. So here are a few questions.

My first question is concerning the engine. I'm seeing 218 and 230 thrown around as if they are the same thing. What are the differences if any and how do I find out what this truck has in it?

My daily driver is a 2000 Dodge Cummins and I love diesels. I've done some reading about doing a 4BT conversion but it sounds expensive and pretty complicated to redo the whole drivetrain. This is my first restoration project so this is all completely new to me. I enjoy getting out in the garage and turning a wrench. I've done a lot of work on my truck like replacing the VP44 injection pump, ball joints, front axle seals etc so I can definitely get in there and learn but I'm not an expert by any stretch.

In light of this I'm leaning more toward the idea of keeping the original engine and rebuilding it to get enough power out of it to make it highway capable. Is that doable and if so what would be involved to make the engine put out enough power to do 65-70 down the road? What other changes to the truck would I need to make to achieve that?

Thanks for all the good advice and tips guys. I'm really excited about this.

[John Waak]

Congratulations on buying a truck that will redefine what a real truck is. However, rather than asking how you can upgrade the truck to your idea about what the truck should be, you might want to let the truck tell you what it is and adjust your thinking accordingly. Instead of cruising the interstate, you might want to discover the beauty of travelling the back roads.

Enjoy! Slow down, savor the moments! Post a picture or two when it arrives.

[maineSS]

The 230 flathead 6 doesn't have the power in the higher rpm range to move the truck at 65-70 mph, the brakes, tires, steering and suspension were never intended for those speeds either. All of this can be worked around, but it will take a lot of modification.

The cam in the early 230 made max torque around 1300 rpm, and the engine was governed at 3200 because the crankshaft oiling would fail at 4000 plus rpm. Anything over 2000 rpm will cause a huge increase in fuel consumption.
The later cam (mid 50's) makes max torque around 1600 rpm, but the other limitations still apply. You need to improve carburetion and exhaust so you can grind a cam to move max torque to 1800-2000 rpm.

[Brutus I]

The 230 flathead 6 doesn't have the power in the higher rpm range to move the truck at 65-70 mph, the brakes, tires, steering and suspension were never intended for those speeds either. All of this can be worked around, but it will take a lot of modification.

The cam in the early 230 made max torque around 1300 rpm, and the engine was governed at 3200 because the crankshaft oiling would fail at 4000 plus rpm. Anything over 2000 rpm will cause a huge increase in fuel consumption.
The later cam (mid 50's) makes max torque around 1600 rpm, but the other limitations still apply. You need to improve carburetion and exhaust so you can grind a cam to move max torque to 1800-2000 rpm.

I understand it doesn't have that power stock. Are you saying that it can't get there even by making the improvements you later mention?

Certainly something to be said for slowing down and sticking to the back roads but I don't want this truck to be limited to only that.

[jsiebert]

By changing the gearing from 5.83s to 4.89s you might get 55mph but 65 or 70 not even down hill with a back wind.I think she'll blow long before that, not to mention getting it to stop. John

[Clint Dixon]

Well fellas I'm now the proud new owner of a 1948 Power Wagon. It should be arriving on the transport truck later today. I'll post some pictures.

My goal with this truck is to make it as nice as I can but something that I can take out and drive and enjoy. I want to be able to comfortably roll down the interstate highway with it. So here are a few questions.

My first question is concerning the engine. I'm seeing 218 and 230 thrown around as if they are the same thing. What are the differences if any and how do I find out what this truck has in it?

My daily driver is a 2000 Dodge Cummins and I love diesels. I've done some reading about doing a 4BT conversion but it sounds expensive and pretty complicated to redo the whole drivetrain. This is my first restoration project so this is all completely new to me. I enjoy getting out in the garage and turning a wrench. I've done a lot of work on my truck like replacing the VP44 injection pump, ball joints, front axle seals etc so I can definitely get in there and learn but I'm not an expert by any stretch.

In light of this I'm leaning more toward the idea of keeping the original engine and rebuilding it to get enough power out of it to make it highway capable. Is that doable and if so what would be involved to make the engine put out enough power to do 65-70 down the road? What other changes to the truck would I need to make to achieve that?

Thanks for all the good advice and tips guys. I'm really excited about this.

Your questions make me think of similar questions that I responded to once before. The person asking, was wanting to transport a Power Wagon a substantial distance and wanted to know which would be better - to flat tow it, or to pull it with the front wheels on a dolly. I responded with a question of my own for him to consider and to hopefully help him arrive at an answer. I asked if he would ever consider flat towing or trailer dollying his bulldozer.

There is a reason that Power Wagons are so "tractor like" in their power and speed. They were purposefully designed that way. The management at Dodge fully intended the Power Wagon to replace both the truck and the tractor and also function as a portable power plant. You can't design such a vehicle without making some sacrifices, concessions, and compromises along the way. The Power Wagon was never the best tractor ever made, and neither was it the best truck, but what it did, it did better than any other.

The engine has a lot of torque and reliable low end power. It is basically the same engine that was used in a selection of tractors, forklifts, and many other agricultural and industrial applications. The gearing in the truck is tailored to meet the intended purpose of the truck. The brakes are nearly perfect for the speeds the truck was intended to travel and the terrain it was designed to travel over/through as long as they receive regular and detailed maintenance.

I have both a '47 WDX and a '51 B3PW. Both trucks have the original 230 engines, in good condition, with factory carbureters, cams, electrics, etc. I run 4.89:1 gearing in the 3rd members and maintain my stock drum brakes in top-notch condition. I also have 9:00x 16 tires. With working velocity governors, set just over 3000 rpm, I can drive steadily at 55mph - or 50mph - depending upon the barometric pressure on any given day. I get the best gas mileage on long trips where I put my foot to the floor and let the governor do its job. I can stop the truck a comfortable distance without unnecessary effort. And, if I am not careful, I can lock up the brakes under a panic situation.

I could spend a lot of time and money to make my trucks drive at 70-75 mph, and to stop quickly at those speeds, just as I could a tractor. The problem is that a tractor would soon throw me from the seat, and my feeling is that a Power Wagon would probably do the same.

[Roald]

Will all of this also apply for a 251 flat head six in a 1970 export model.

I was hoping for 45 mph reliable with a 5.83 gearing when I get the powerwagon on the road again :-)

[Tom Petroff]

Your questions make me think of similar questions that I responded to once before. The person asking, was wanting to transport a Power Wagon a substantial distance and wanted to know which would be better - to flat tow it, or to pull it with the front wheels on a dolly. I responded with a question of my own for him to consider and to hopefully help him arrive at an answer. I asked if he would ever consider flat towing or trailer dollying his bulldozer.

There is a reason that Power Wagons are so "tractor like" in their power and speed. They were purposefully designed that way. The management at Dodge fully intended the Power Wagon to replace both the truck and the tractor and also function as a portable power plant. You can't design such a vehicle without making some sacrifices, concessions, and compromises along the way. The Power Wagon was never the best tractor ever made, and neither was it the best truck, but what it did, it did better than any other.

The engine has a lot of torque and reliable low end power. It is basically the same engine that was used in a selection of tractors, forklifts, and many other agricultural and industrial applications. The gearing in the truck is tailored to meet the intended purpose of the truck. The brakes are nearly perfect for the speeds the truck was intended to travel and the terrain it was designed to travel over/through as long as they receive regular and detailed maintenance.

I have both a '47 WDX and a '51 B3PW. Both trucks have the original 230 engines, in good condition, with factory carbureters, cams, electrics, etc. I run 4.89:1 gearing in the 3rd members and maintain my stock drum brakes in top-notch condition. I also have 9:00x 16 tires. With working velocity governors, set just over 3000 rpm, I can drive steadily at 55mph - or 50mph - depending upon the barometric pressure on any given day. I get the best gas mileage on long trips where I put my foot to the floor and let the governor do its job. I can stop the truck a comfortable distance without unnecessary effort. And, if I am not careful, I can lock up the brakes under a panic situation.

I could spend a lot of time and money to make my trucks drive at 70-75 mph, and to stop quickly at those speeds, just as I could a tractor. The problem is that a tractor would soon throw me from the seat, and my feeling is that a Power Wagon would probably do the same.

Well Said Clint.
You pretty much covered it.
Why is it here lately everyone it seems, wants to re power,re gear,redesign the truck for high speed interstate driving?
Buy a CTD Ram for that, or take the scenic route as stated.
TGP

[Brutus I]

Truck came in yesterday evening. Unloading it turned out to be quite a fiasco but we got it done and in the garage.

[Brutus I]

Well Said Clint.
You pretty much covered it.
Why is it here lately everyone it seems, wants to re power,re gear,redesign the truck for high speed interstate driving?
Buy a CTD Ram for that, or take the scenic route as stated.
TGP

I suppose the same could be said any time someone decides to hot rod a car or make any change to it that goes outside of the original design parameters. It's the American way. :) I can appreciate those who want to keep their trucks as close as possible to how they were when they rolled off the factory floor. There's nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing wrong with making changes that take a machine beyond it's originally intended limits or purpose. Maybe I'd like to be able to take my truck to the lake that is an hour and a half away and I don't want to take 3 hours getting there by going through the back roads. You go 55mph down I-75 around Atlanta and you're creating a hazard. I know what I am asking can be done and done right. I'm not asking whether anyone agrees with the decision to do it. If you don't agree with what I intend to do that's fine, don't do it with your truck. I'm simply trying to learn what the options are to get this truck where I want it to be.

[Desoto61]

Well I know for me that the nicer the truck the less I like to see it hacked into something different. Which is probably why I don't just find a better truck for my project, or why I don't feel too bad about doing it. It wasn't stock when I got it so I don't feel too bad not keeping it that way.

However the big thing here is that there is not really a half way on this. You need to make sure that you are modifying the truck to continue to work as a whole. Shoving a V8 or diesel in the front without making sure the brakes or steering are up to the handling the new speed and power is asking for trouble.

You don't have to be ready to hand Charles a blank check and the keys to your truck to get what you want, but it's not going to be a weekend bolt-on upgrade either.

And while my "frankentruck" is far from done my understanding is that even with the new drivetrain, gearing, brakes, etc, I'm really only moving that 50-55 to 65-70 (i.e. not too much more head room than that) without new axles with different gearing. But if you're not asking for too much more than that you should be good.

[Brutus I]

Thanks Desoto. I'd be interested in hearing from any members who have done this and how they went about it. I have plenty of work to get done before I go that route. I guess what I am looking for is any steps that one would skip in the restore if they are considering doing what I am talking about. For example, the body and frame work is going to be the same either way but it probably doesn't make much sense to put a lot of money into rebuilding the stock engine.

[Clint Dixon]

I suppose the same could be said any time someone decides to hot rod a car or make any change to it that goes outside of the original design parameters. It's the American way. :) I can appreciate those who want to keep their trucks as close as possible to how they were when they rolled off the factory floor. There's nothing wrong with that. There is also nothing wrong with making changes that take a machine beyond it's originally intended limits or purpose. Maybe I'd like to be able to take my truck to the lake that is an hour and a half away and I don't want to take 3 hours getting there by going through the back roads. You go 55mph down I-75 around Atlanta and you're creating a hazard. I know what I am asking can be done and done right. I'm not asking whether anyone agrees with the decision to do it. If you don't agree with what I intend to do that's fine, don't do it with your truck. I'm simply trying to learn what the options are to get this truck where I want it to be.

It sounds as if you have set a goal for yourself, part of which is to build a Power Wagon that can comfortably keep up with traffic on the interstate. Goals are good. I don't think anyone here is really saying you should not do it, or you should change your goal to be something less. Some of us just have a hard time understanding why anyone would shoot for such a goal, probably because that particular goal is of no interest to us. But that is beside the point and of no help in getting answers to your questions.

So, with that said, I believe I speak for others when I suggest you explore all the options and talk to others that have achieved the same goal by swapping componants rather than trying to extensively modify existing parts and searching for bolt-on performance that may not exist. You may find that a big block MoPar engine, or a 4BT diesel might meet your needs better, cheaper, and easier than trying to modify an engine that has inherent limitations on numbers of cylinders, cyinder bore size, breathing characteristics, etc. A lot of people have built Power Wagons that will safetly travel with traffic on the interstate, but most have done it with repowers, running gear swaps, and brake upgrades. I have seen very few do it by modifying the old 230 L-head, and some of those who have later wished they had spent their time and money on an engine swap.

[Brutus I]

It sounds as if you have set a goal for yourself, part of which is to build a Power Wagon that can comfortably keep up with traffic on the interstate. Goals are good. I don't think anyone here is really saying you should not do it, or you should change your goal to be something less. Some of us just have a hard time understanding why anyone would shoot for such a goal, probably because that particular goal is of no interest to us. But that is beside the point and of no help in getting answers to your questions.

So, with that said, I believe I speak for others when I suggest you explore all the options and talk to others that have achieved the same goal by swapping componants rather than trying to extensively modify existing parts and searching for bolt-on performance that may not exist. You may find that a big block MoPar engine, or a 4BT diesel might meet your needs better, cheaper, and easier than trying to modify an engine that has inherent limitations on numbers of cylinders, cyinder bore size, breathing characteristics, etc. A lot of people have built Power Wagons that will safetly travel with traffic on the interstate, but most have done it with repowers, running gear swaps, and brake upgrades. I have seen very few do it by modifying the old 230 L-head, and some of those who have later wished they had spent their time and money on an engine swap.

Would the same hold true for the 251?

[John Waak]

Would the same hold true for the 251?

Yep. The power gains of the 251 over the 230 isnegligible in light of your goals.

In addition to an engine upgrade, you also need to think about upgrading your axle gearing. All the power in the world won't translate into road speed if the gearing is geared for slow. 4.89 gears can be found for the differentials, but having to convert both front and back adds up dollar wise. Even then, I have my doubts about travelling at highway speeds comfortably and safely.

Have you thought about investigating a chassis/drive-train swap? That is, dropping the body on a modern Dodge Ram chassis? That may help you reach your goal without having to reinvent the whole truck. Just a thought.