Diesel VS. Gas Which would you suggest

[MoparFreak69]

This is a good point. How much of a "load" is the slant 6 going to be working under as it pulls the M-37 down the road- if it is working at 80% capacity then it will be little of an improvement over the flathead in terms of fuel "economy"

also comes the question, as to how well it performs the work being done. wide open in low gear would be a real drag (maybe that is an exaggeration) to have done all the work, and end up with it being way underpowered..

I agree, I have a tired 318 in my plow truck and it does struggle sometimes with the heavier snow packs. It does not plow anywhere near as well as my Cummins Ram did, both in traction and pushing power. Having said that, my 318 has never failed me and does do the job I ask of it. I imagine a slant six will have similar results.

It all boils down to, how much do you want to spend and how much work do you want to do? If you have an unlimited budget then for sure go with the diesel, you wont regret it. If you have a very limited budget (like me) then other options begin to surface. Remember that a small block Chrysler does not weigh considerably more than a slant 6 or flathead 6. They can be had from a boneyard for not a ton of cash. A 360 will put out a good bit of power with only a little money spent on it and they can be put in front of a wide range of transmissions. They are more compact than an inline 6 (lengthwise) and really arent that much wider than a 6 with all of its accessories hung on it. You can buy a Magnum engine (roller rockers, better heads, quite a few other improvements) and throw a carbed manifold and carb on it and basically be done. A regular electronic or point 8 cylinder distributor will drop in and you can be going.

Just some more info to digest.

[Jason Mills]

In a few years you will see an entire new generation of small powerful diesels in every type of vehicle.

We as a country don't seem to be switching to diesels very fast... have to admit I am more excited about the direct injection gas engines that are starting to be produced (although I know nothing about them)

I would have all ready settled on a diesel but for two reasons: I have noticed that the price of diesel fuel is consistently higher than gas... and I expect in a booming economy that will only become more pronounced..

and

It appears as if UPS (around here) now runs gas V-8's in their local delivery trucks, (they all used to be diesels) so I got to thinking that there must be no economic sense for them to do pay upfront, and then loose at the pump as well..

[Charles Talbert]

Mopar

$20,000 for an engine; I'll sell you the complete perfect fit QSB for under $11,000. Brand new straight from Cummins in the crate with a full Cummins warranty good at any dealer in the world.

I just stated the facts, Norm backed it up by sharing about the new US regs that have been adopted.

The bottom line is it is none of my business what anyone installs, that is their choice. I wouldn't share information that could get someone hung out to dry. I'd hate to find out that something I said got someone into a problem. That is why I only share facts that apply to what we are doing. I'd still suggest you do some digging into the fine print before passing on unproven facts.

[MoparNorm]

We as a country don't seem to be switching to diesels very fast... have to admit I am more excited about the direct injection gas engines that are starting to be produced (although I know nothing about them)

I would have all ready settled on a diesel but for two reasons: I have noticed that the price of diesel fuel is consistently higher than gas... and I expect in a booming economy that will only become more pronounced..

and

It appears as if UPS (around here) now runs gas V-8's in their local delivery trucks, (they all used to be diesels) so I got to thinking that there must be no economic sense for them to do pay upfront, and then loose at the pump as well..

We're not moving toward diesel very fast because the "greens" hate them, many greens in government regulatory agencies and have tried to outlaw them at every turn, resulting in diesel regulations which are much more stringent than those for gasoline engines. Yet in fact, modern diesels run cleaner than gas and exhaust far less CO2 than gas.
That regulation hurdle for diesel is going to change in the not so distant future as the next Euro regulations will nearly match the current US regulations and since Europe uses 80% diesels, (because of their high cost of fuel) and must meet those regulations, the gap between diesels technology in Europe and the US will narrow to allow diesels to economically meet US regs. Primarily because Europeans will now bear a lot more of the cost to clean up their engines to US standards.

UPS still uses all diesel here in CA. I'd surmise that switching some vehicles to gas is a local experiment, one that will fail. Many companies from time to time, get a deal on cheap gas trucks, and then discover what they should already know, diesel fuel economy is 30% greater, diesel maintenance costs are often less and the number of hours a diesel can stay in service is nearly three times the life of a gas engine.

Lastly, as I mentioned, diesel prices may be marginally higher, but they would have to be a dollar per gallon higher than gas before it was close to a push.
The 20-30 cents difference we see right now is insignificant and in a "booming economy", which is still far away, you are going to see much more price pressure on gasoline than diesel.

[Gsmith]

I'm in Florida so I've never plowed snow, so am simply asking this out of curiosity. Given the intended use wouldn't the simplest and most logical step be to install an original 230 back in the truck? It seems like it would have enough power to do what he described.

[JStinson]

I'm in Florida so I've never plowed snow, so am simply asking this out of curiosity. Given the intended use wouldn't the simplest and most logical step be to install an original 230 back in the truck? It seems like it would have enough power to do what he described.

Seconded.

Yes, it's a low power engine. However, keep in mind that your gears are a huge factor in your overall performance. Unless your truck has been re-geared, I really think you'll be fine just dropping in a good old 230. It'll be a cheap bolt on solution.

[Charles Talbert]

If the truck will be used for plowing only, a good condition 230 will perform fine; even if it had been regeared to 4.89, a 230 will still handle that fine.

If you are building a 230 to first class, the best it can be however, you will have over half the cost of a new diesel in that. So pro's and con's weighed out, depends on the full intended use of the vehicle in future applications that would be needed in order to make the best decision for the given application overall.

[MoparNorm]

I'm in Florida so I've never plowed snow, so am simply asking this out of curiosity. Given the intended use wouldn't the simplest and most logical step be to install an original 230 back in the truck? It seems like it would have enough power to do what he described.

Yep, in post #4 some guy suggested that. It seemed to get lost in the smoke screen... = )

Does the current gasoline engine work? If it works I would leave it alone for the simple reason that a $2,000 engine swap would take a long time to recover the diesel fuel savings.

He later wrote that it had no motor. Installing a motor that uses the existing engine mounts, transmission, electrics, fuel lines and radiator is the prudent way to go.
He has yet to inform us if he is rolling in dough, but I would assume that he is like the rest of us and isn't...that means a stock replacement... = )

The original question was gas vs. diesel. He was leaning toward diesel, but had some misconceptions about diesel fuel prices vs. the cost to operate.
If he WANTS a diesel and can afford it, then by all means, do not be deterred for the wrong reasons.
If he wants to operate for the least amount of money spent, ANY engine swap is too expensive.

[Desoto61]

UPS still uses all diesel here in CA. I'd surmise that switching some vehicles to gas is a local experiment, one that will fail. Many companies from time to time, get a deal on cheap gas trucks, and then discover what they should already know, diesel fuel economy is 30% greater, diesel maintenance costs are often less and the number of hours a diesel can stay in service is nearly three times the life of a gas engine.

Depending on where it also wouldn't surprise me if they weren't converted to CNG or some sort of bio fuel. Local availability or government incentives could make it cheaper to operate. Or as a corporate experiment to see if it does save money.

[MoparNorm]

Depending on where it also wouldn't surprise me if they weren't converted to CNG or some sort of bio fuel. Local availability or government incentives could make it cheaper to operate. Or as a corporate experiment to see if it does save money.

That is true, as I noted, there have been many such experiments, they all eventually go back to diesel...which should tell us something.

Many of the CNG efforts are so highly subsidized* that the company cannot fail to take advantage of the tax rate, carbon credits and other trade offs such as "... we will give you your building permit to expand, only if you change over to CNG, or propane."

*There are many wrong headed government programs that do this social experimentation, ...all with your money, I might ad.

[QuantumJo]

One appealing aspic of diesel is, it can run on a veggie oil. I'm not sure if this is practical for your application or for the engine you may choose to use.

[Desoto61]

That is true, as I noted, there have been many such experiments, they all eventually go back to diesel...which should tell us something.

Many of the CNG efforts are so highly subsidized* that the company cannot fail to take advantage of the tax rate, carbon credits and other trade offs such as "... we will give you your building permit to expand, only if you change over to CNG, or propane."

*There are many wrong headed government programs that do this social experimentation, ...all with your money, I might ad.

Sure, then there's the PR aspect. It wouldn't bother me as much if it was well thought out or a viable long term solution but they are usually neither.

I think the truth of the matter is that there will be no one solution in the future. Not all gas, diesel, electric, etc. Diesel is probably the most flexible long term.

Back on subject though, as Charles and others have pointed out the biggest factor is probably going to be budget vs desire. The cheapest method is probably going to be a V8. They make good power, are cheap, flexible, and more common than any of the diesel options you might look at.

Sure economy and longevity might be better on the diesel but if you pay twice as much to get set up how long will it take to pay that back?

You do the diesel or restoration engine because it either makes the most sense for your usage goals, which are probably better served with a more modern vehicle anyway, or it's just what you want. I think for most of us, myself included, it's all about the latter.

I know for me it is a labor of love, and assuming I ever finish it, will never be worth what I've spent, but it will be worth what I've learned and accomplished and that's all I really want out of it.

[Jason Mills]

There is more information here than I am rapidly able to digest and truly understand..

I can say I am not really leaning towards a Flathead.. as my experience has been that they consume a fair quantity of fuel.. and a good running slant six could be had for less than the price of a flathead core. (besides I all ready have a 230, and have yet to own a 225)

A V-8 would also be a fine answer, they return great power for about the same fuel economy of the flathead. Yet I would trade excess power for extra economy..

A diesel.. is more expensive in the short term.. CAN diesels be set up to run on propane or CNG? is that a spark ignition engine only?

[Charles Talbert]

There is more information here than I am rapidly able to digest and truly understand..

I can say I am not really leaning towards a Flathead.. as my experience has been that they consume a fair quantity of fuel.. and a good running slant six could be had for less than the price of a flathead core. (besides I all ready have a 230, and have yet to own a 225)

A V-8 would also be a fine answer, they return great power for about the same fuel economy of the flathead. Yet I would trade excess power for extra economy..

A diesel.. is more expensive in the short term.. CAN diesels be set up to run on propane or CNG? is that a spark ignition engine only?

Be careful with a V8, for the most part they don't offer good low end torque. I've known folks that used them only to learn that their ability to creep around off highway was virtually lost because low end torque just wasn't there. It required more throttle to go than was needed for creeping in order to keep the engine running. After money is sunk into a project is not a good time to realize it was not the better way to go. My advice is to be sure you know what ever you choose will give you the desired end result before you spend $$$.

[Jason Mills]

Be careful with a V8, for the most part they don't offer good low end torque.

Less than the 230? hummm.. OK I hear your concern.