Need to find best $ & availability on 4bt???

[jpf1030]

Howdy,
Being new here, I've only posted in one thread, asking about putting a 6bt in a FFPW. Thanks to great advice from you guys, I've been looking for a 4bt. Before hearing from you guys, I did not even know what a 4bt was. Now I've been looking fruitlessly since to find some. We are doing our first of several planned FFPW frame off resto's, starting with our '50 B-2-PW. We need an engine and have a good 6bt as we have been Cummins fans with our pickups and tractor all having the 6bt. It is now apparent that it would be way too much modification for this engine in a PW, but as you have pointed out, many have installed the 4bt. Where do you find good and reasonably priced 4bt's most easily??? We could find half a dozen 6bt's at any given moment, but for some unknown reason, it seems difficult to find the 4bt after searching the internet. I would gratefully appreciate hearing from any of you that can help, especially those who are familiar with the 4bt conversion in a FFPW, as there is no doubt there will be much more to learning in doing this conversion. Thanks a bunch...Jim

[Chewie]

Just a google search.

http://www.mylittlesalesman.com/fron...ummins&mod=4bt

http://www.truckparts.org/part_type/...ine_motor.html

Pay attention to the CPL#.
What part of the continent are you in?

[jpf1030]

JPF Reply to Chewie

Just a google search.

http://www.mylittlesalesman.com/fron...ummins&mod=4bt

http://www.truckparts.org/part_type/...ine_motor.html

Pay attention to the CPL#.
What part of the continent are you in?

Howdy Chewie,
Thanks a bunch for the leads. We will check them out. Ok, here's my total ignorance, what is the CPL#? We are in the Bitterroot Valley of SW Montana...Jim

[MoparFreak69]

A good source of the 4bt often can be found in an old frito lay box truck sitting behind an obscure warehouse. Thats where they seem to pop up from around here.

[Chewie]

Howdy Chewie,
Thanks a bunch for the leads. We will check them out. Ok, here's my total ignorance, what is the CPL#?...Jim

I'm not the best guy to answer that. CPL stands for Control Parts List, or something along those lines. On-road engines have a certain number, generator sets had another number, and so on. Try a site like

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/
or
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/

to get more details.
Remember that Cummins built these for everything from woodchippers to stepvans, and they all used different power levels, fuel systems, exhaust manifolds and who knows what else.
I hope someone with more experience chimes in.

[jpf1030]

Thanks to Chewie & MoparFreak69

Thanks for the continued info input, it all sure helps!...Jim

[Desoto61]

The CPL is the "model" number of a Cummins engine. You can look up that number and know what the specifications are for that engine. It's also what most Cummins parts suppliers will require to order parts.

Your best source for info and leads is www.4btswaps.com.
Everything you could want to know about that motor in just about anything you can put one in.

I found mine on Craigslist. Used a site like search tempest to search within 250 miles. Came up just on the outskirts of that range, but even with the drive it was well worth the trip!

The hard part is going to be getting the tranny I need.

[jpf1030]

Thanks to Desoto61

Howdy Desoto61,
Thanks for your reply. Yep, the 4btswaps site does work.
I received and email today from a buy with one right here
in the same small town in Montana and will meet with him
tomorrow. We have not learned yet about transmission
compatability yet with the rest of the '50 ffpw drivetrain, so
any and all suggestions are welcomed...jpf

[Desoto61]

Not sure there is an easy solution to the tranny problem. The Cummins will bolt to just about anything, that's not the issue. It's figuring out what to use and finding the right parts.

The easiest is to use the Dodge Cummins setup. This is what Paul(in NY) has done on at least two of his builds. Parts are easiest to get and it's a solid setup since it's built to go behind the 6 cylinder.
The downside is due to length you have to either use the 4WD version with the attached transfer case and convert to a centered rear axle assembly (either "stock" or aftermarket), or move the stock transfer case back. Either way that probably means new driveshafts.

The Chevy NV4500 setup I'm trying to go with will use the stock transfer case. However it's probably the most expensive/rare setup. You need the cummins/chevy flywheel which is $$$, and chevy/nv4500 bell housing. Then you need the very rare/desireable early chevy NV4500 2WD setup which is just short enough to fit.
The Chevy bell housing adapter has a slight tilt built into it, so you have to either put the engine or the transmission at an angle in the truck too.

You can go to a Ford 5-speed. The 2WD version will fit with the stock transfer case, but again some of the adapters and parts are expensive/rare and you have to be careful about which version of the Ford tranny you use. The transmission is a lot easier/cheaper to get, but the OD gearing isn't as good as on the NV4500 setup.

Charles uses a Spicer 3053a which uses a more common SAE mounting and fits with the stock transfer case. However they are heavy, have a weird shift pattern, and even though it's an SAE mounting there doesn't seem to be a simple off the shelf configuration for the clutch/flywheel/linkage setup that I can find (and Charles isn't talking about his). Plus, unless you get his custom 5th gear, they don't have as good an OD as the NV4500.

[jpf1030]

JPF reply to Desoto61 Transmission for 4bt Conversion

Howdy Desoto61,
Wow, thanks for such an involved effort in explaining the transmission issues involved with the 4bt engine conversion! That had to have taken you considerable time, which is mighty neighborly of you. Now my head swims at figuring out the best solution. You mention Paul of NY. I've seen a few postings refer to his great knowledge. How do we get in contact with him? Thanks again for all the help from you and others here...Jim

[Desoto61]

Glad I could help, I've been looking into this for a while. As you can see from my thread in the PW page I'm going down the same path, or at least trying to.

He frequents the other forum. Look for Paul(in NY) posts. A link to his image event site is usually at the bottom and you can find his e-mail address there too.

He's a wealth of knowledge and very willing to help. A great resource and an even better guy.

[mcinfantry]

I prefer the chevy setup. You get the advantage of rotating the oil pan away from the pumpkin on the axle....

Ive done a dodge nv4500/4bt setup and gm4l80e/4bt and prefer the latter, hands down

[jpf1030]

JPF reply to Mcinfantry on Chevy trans for 4BT

Howdy Mcinfantry,

Thanks for the conversion tips. We've now had a few people express their preference for the Chevy setup for the tranny. This would seem the course for us to work toward. I appreciate your sending the GM# for us to research and learn more about. Thanks a bunch...Jim

[Charles Talbert]

No, we don't talk about all we have done or how we got there, our custom set ups have had much time and $$ invested, and this is a living for us; so that explains that.

The reason we use the 3053A trans with ours is simple; it is the best of both worlds. The first gear is lower than the original first, great for creeping around off road. 4th gear is still 1 to 1 straight through drive just as the original was; with 5th being a true overdrive. Our trucks will run over 70MPH without 5th gear modifications. With the .69 5th gear overdrive installed, the top end is bumped up towards 80MPH; and fuel economy at 55 also shows a big improvement. We do other mods when we build the Spicer that greatly enhance its durability and longivity. The weight isn't an issue at all. Bottom line, it's an extreme heavy duty gear box, our customers love it. If you are building a truck for mainly on highway, some other unit may serve you ok; we don't build our trucks with just that in mind. We strive to build a truck that is just as off road capable as these were intended to be originally, along with the more driver friendly updated on highway features.

[mcinfantry]

No, we don't talk about all we have done or how we got there, our custom set ups have had much time and $$ invested, and this is a living for us; so that explains that.

The reason we use the 3053A trans with ours is simple; it is the best of both worlds. The first gear is lower than the original first, great for creeping around off road. 4th gear is still 1 to 1 straight through drive just as the original was; with 5th being a true overdrive. Our trucks will run over 70MPH without 5th gear modifications. With the .69 5th gear overdrive installed, the top end is bumped up towards 80MPH; and fuel economy at 55 also shows a big improvement. We do other mods when we build the Spicer that greatly enhance its durability and longivity. The weight isn't an issue at all. Bottom line, it's an extreme heavy duty gear box, our customers love it. If you are building a truck for mainly on highway, some other unit may serve you ok; we don't build our trucks with just that in mind. We strive to build a truck that is just as off road capable as these were intended to be originally, along with the more driver friendly updated on highway features.

I have never done the spicer nor seen it. I'm DEFINITLY not against it. I agree with you.