Diagnosing the 2001 24V Cummins Ram

[Gordon Maney]

Gordon,
Jimmie is correct about the 1st gen. engines. Very simple, can make big power.
The 6BTA in my Chev. K-30 has a Bosch VE pump. It's a good pump .but don't like these new ulsd fuels. It is fuel lubericated,so it suffer's.
When Cummins went to the inline oil feed pump The P series all was well.
Then they went to the VP 44 as a stop gap pump for emissions Reg.'s
And the same promblem with lubericity,start's all over again.
The last "common rail" system solves that.
I hate to say,but from what you describe, your problem is a VP 44 problem,
IMO.
Air or week flow can easily be checked by installing a clear tube in the return line and watching for bubbles.
TGP

I would not disagree with you, but they did try a new injection pump and that did not do it. The second ECM should certainly be here by today, so.... hopefully that will do it.

The clear line idea is good. Too bad there would not be a good way to have one permanently.

How does the common rail system solve that? This is 2003 and up?

[Tom Petroff]

Excuse me, I did not read where they already tried the pump. Thought it was just the ECM and various sensors, and the LP and IP checked out.
This engine should be throwing all kind's of codes? I have seen the IP fail
with No codes at all,although rare.
03 and up is common rail. I have not done much reading on them yet.
But basicly it's a high preasure pump that supplies fuel to all the injectors at the same time. Then each injector is triggered electronicly for rate and timing,
much like a fuel injected gas engine. The high preasure pump has very few moving parts.
Someone can explain better I'm sure.
Hope they get it figured out soon. I'm sure your getting aggravated by now.
I sure woul be.
BTW,
Not to hi-jack the thread but How's Mom?
TGP

[JimmieD]

I wonder if a P-100 injection pump would be a viable upgrade being as it's a 'keeper'? That and a piston or electric lift pump would solve some problems, if such is compatible with computers. I could look into it if that would help.

[Tom Petroff]

Jim,
I don't believe it is computer controled at all. From what I remember it's just an inline pump that is cooled and lubricated by engine oil.
My-be some of the very last ones had some small electronics.
I do know that the timeing cover is different between pump styles.
"P" pumps have four mounting studs like the "VP" pump but I think it is still different. Besides all the lines.
If ya don't have anything else to do today look into this and lets see how far off I am,LOL
Take Care
TGP

[JimmieD]

I may be way off with the P-100 thought. Only Cummins I've researched is the 1st Gen and with those there's lots of guys that have upgraded to P-100's. Though it's a very good hi-pressure pump it may not work for the very reasons you describe. I was tossing it out to see if maybe you knew ha haha! Sorry, Gordon, wish I had good solid answers on this but I don't.

[Gordon Maney]

Excuse me, I did not read where they already tried the pump. Thought it was just the ECM and various sensors, and the LP and IP checked out.
This engine should be throwing all kind's of codes? I have seen the IP fail
with No codes at all,although rare.
03 and up is common rail. I have not done much reading on them yet.
But basicly it's a high preasure pump that supplies fuel to all the injectors at the same time. Then each injector is triggered electronicly for rate and timing,
much like a fuel injected gas engine. The high preasure pump has very few moving parts.
Someone can explain better I'm sure.
Hope they get it figured out soon. I'm sure your getting aggravated by now.
I sure woul be.
BTW,
Not to hi-jack the thread but How's Mom?
TGP

I will post more later; I am working on an issue just now.

My mother is doing pretty good, still having some swelling. She is impatient with this, since she has been so active.

As for the truck, I got it back today. I will explain more later about the final situation. The bill was $2,099, and that includes two new batteries that I asked for. My car rental bill was $740. A pretty expensive program.

Later....

[Tom Petroff]

That's good news Gordon!
Price not near as bad as I thought it would be. Considering all that they tried,and the amount of time spent.
Hopefully,it will be trouble free for a long while.
Glad mom is doing better too! As long as they remain "Sassy" you know all is well, At least this hold true with My Mother!,ha
TGP

[Gordon Maney]

That's good news Gordon!
Price not near as bad as I thought it would be. Considering all that they tried,and the amount of time spent.
Hopefully,it will be trouble free for a long while.
Glad mom is doing better too! As long as they remain "Sassy" you know all is well, At least this hold true with My Mother!,ha
TGP

Trying to be proactive, it makes me wonder what parts a person would want to be on the watch for, given opportunities to gather used trucks and parts as possible.

One thing I read about as a preventive habit is the application of dielectric grease to electrical connectors on a periodic basis.

[cfarther]

Gordon,

The addition of a fuel gauge is a good insurance policy, my 2001.5 is on the 4th lift pump at 132k. It seems the lift pump was designed to push fuel not suck it, so the long distance from the tank to the engine may be a problem, so owners have had good luck relocating the pump close to the tank.

You can check you own ecm (engine control module) and pcm (powertrain control module) codes by : turning the key on (not hitting the starter) and off three times and leaving on the third time, don't crank the engine, just turn to the start position. The codes if any exist will flash in the odometer window, if you see ecu or pcu _ _ _ _ _ there are no codes for that module. Of course to decode you can go to several websites including the turbodieselregister.

1st Gen 89'-93' - VE injection pumps - rotary, 1 piston
2nd Gen 94'-98.5 - P7100 inline pump - 6 pistons
2nd Gen 98.5'-2002 - VP44 - rotary pump
3rd Gen 2003 present - HPCR - High Pressure Common Rail

Some early 98.5 vp44's were known to have an internal clearance problem, this was especially notable when a performance box was attached.

Most vp44's if in good condition will pull fuel past a poor performing or dead lift pump, but this can cause unreasonable stress on the vp. The vp44 is both cooled and lubricated by diesel fuel, while the older p7100 is cooled and lubricated by oil. Thus if the diesel fuel supply to the vp44 is diminished, approximately 70% of fuel through the vp44 is returned to the tank, the vp44 can wear prematurely or fail. This is why it is critical to monitor the fuel pressure in any Cummins equiped truck between the years of 98.5 (24valve) and 2002. Also with the advent of low sulfur diesel fuel, an additive is not out of the question.