Winch Repair & Rebuild

[Gordon Maney]

No, can't say I've ever heard of it. Honestly other than using RTV or pre-made gaskets this is my first real foray into it. Most of it I cut out with scissors (outside) or a razor blade (inside) but the holes are too small to cut well with either.

For purposes of illustration, let's imagine a simple casting having a number of holes to accept mounting fasteners and a large hole in the center. The gasket we hope to make will be shaped just like the parting surfaces of our gasketed joint.

If your casting is small enough, or the shape allows this, clamp it in your vise. Otherwise, place it on the bench in such a way that it will sit still.

Step away from that whole scenario for a moment and let's conduct a little experiment. Cut a small piece of gasket paper — 3 in. square — and consider one bolt hole in your casting. Lay the piece of paper across a bolt hole, hold the paper still, and press on the paper with your finger in such a way that you attempt to push the paper through the hole. It will make a hole shaped impression in the paper. You will see the perimeter of the round hole in the paper.

Continue to hold that paper still. Using the pein end of your small, ball pein hammer, work around the image of the hold in the paper, striking against the paper, cutting the paper on the corner presented by the perimeter of the hole. Do this carefully on this one hole. You can't cut it through with one blow. Work around the hole. Done properly, you can then simply push the round, punched piece of paper through.

That methodology is how you will make your entire gasket; bolt holes, and inner and outer perimeter of the gasket contour.

Utilizing your new skill, place a piece of paper cut large enough to be your entire gasket over your casting. Position it as you wish, then begin with one bolt hold. Once you have that hole completed, put a bolt through it. Usually the bolts from the assembly will work, but if they are small, use larger bolts. Your goal is to hold the gasket in place.

Work your way around the casting, putting bolts in as you complete each hole. Once you have the paper held properly in place with all the bolts, then work on the inner and outer perimeter of the gasket.

You can make perfect gaskets using this method. I also think it is great fun. It is a process you can put yourself into, and at the same time produce a very nice looking gasket. Use commercial gasket paper for this, which you can buy at your full line auto parts store.

You may ruin one in your first attempt, but you can do it. The main skills required are patience and attention to detail.

I have made many gaskets this way and can usually manage to astound onlookers not familiar with the process. Many years ago I taught kids how to make crankcase gaskets for their Briggs & Stratton engines. For whatever reason it managed to be one of the most satisfying parts of their engine rebuilding experience.

You will make a gasket like that and find yourself standing there admiring it.

[Desoto61]

Thanks, I'll give it a try. I do similar when I'm masking off parts with aluminum foil, but after I press the shape into it I usually just cut it with a sharp razor blade.

Guess I need to look at a smaller ball-peen hammer while I'm at the store, the one I have is probably a little too large for that. Nothing like an excuse to buy new tools!

[Gordon Maney]

Thanks, I'll give it a try. I do similar when I'm masking off parts with aluminum foil, but after I press the shape into it I usually just cut it with a sharp razor blade.

Guess I need to look at a smaller ball-peen hammer while I'm at the store, the one I have is probably a little too large for that. Nothing like an excuse to buy new tools!

As we all know, you can never have too many tools of quality.

For some odd reason, women don't understand that. At the same time they are buried in an avalanche of shoes and purses in their closets.

[Doc Dave]

Winch rebuild...very tight!
I am finishing up my MU2 rebuild. All I am waiting on is a used straight winch drum bracket, since mine was bent and I decided to go the replacement route rather than straighten/grind/shim the ends (although I have not ruled that out).
I put the worm gear in and carefully adjusted the gasket thicknesses so that the preload is where it is supposed to be. THen I put the shaft and bronze gear in and closed everything up.
I thought all was well, but now the pto shaft is almost impossible to turn enough to get the drum shaft to turn. I put in an 8" line up tool through the hole and it is very tight...it turns with some effort about 10-15 degrees then stops.
I set up the bearings without the bronze gear in place, was that a mistake? I see where some suggest doing it this way.
Suggestions welcome.

[Desoto61]

Did you set up the bronze bull gear without the worm gear in? The gaskets on the bull gear cover set the end play of the drum shaft. I'm guessing that the cover is too tight and is pinching the bull gear in the case.

You should be able to spin the drum shaft freely with no end play, I set this up first without the worm gear in then set up the worm gear using the bull gear to move the worm back and forth.

When I first put my cover on with the one supplied gasket I couldn't turn the drum shaft at all by hand. I had to add another thick gasket to get to the point where I had free rotation and no perceptible end play.

You could set up the bull, then remove it and set up the worm then re-install the bull gear.

Without taking the worm back apart you could remove the bull gear cover and basically set it up the same way as the worm gear. Testing the end play and then adjusting the gaskets until end play is gone. That should help free up the drum shaft.

[maineSS]

You should be able to turn the input shaft by hand with the same effort through each drum shaft revolution. There are several possibilities for the bind- (1) the gearcase cover is rubbing the gear (already mentioned), (2) the worm is shimmed too far forward or back, (3) the shaft bushings are too tight. New bushings must be reamed to fit the shaft, they are not a "press and play" item. They will shrink inward by the amount of the press fit, which can trip you up if you're not thinking about it.

I assume this is happening without the leg in place?

[Doc Dave]

Thanks for both of your replies.
The winch bracket (leg) is not in place, and the bushings were the original ones before I pulled the winch apart. The previous owner had started a rebuild with a new bull gear and bushings. The bull gear shaft was mated to the new bushings and the winch worked before my rebuild.
The main reason I tore it down is that I did not know the extent of this rebuild and I could tell he overloaded it at one point, due to the front angle and side bracket being bent.
Before I read your replies I pulled off the gearcase cover, and voila' the worm turned fine via the input shaft.
When I install the cover with hand tight bolts, there is no problem but if I put 25# on the bolts the shaft would bind. I measured with a ruler and indeed it appears the bull gear shaft was rubbing on the cover end.
I used the VPW supplied one and it is too thin. I will install a thicker gasket this weekend and or stack them. Hopefully that will take care of it.
BTW I had originally left the bull gear on the shaft when I disassembled the winch. I did notice though that the bull gear could move laterally on the keys either way if the shaft was struck with a bronze hammer. I was not sure how the bull gear is centered, but I guess the worm gear helps to center the bull gear, and so the main thing is to get the shaft to just clear the case cover?

[Doc Dave]

Guys,
I was examining the brass bushing from the winch drum bracket that I pressed out. In places it looks like it has some sort of brown substance, like a dried lacquer, on its outside where it contacted the bracket hole.
Is there an adhesive that is normally applied to the inside of the bracket before the bushing is pressed in?
I do not know if this was tied to a previous reaming attempt, as you mention needing to ream these bushings.
I expect to receive the replacement bracket soon and want to assemble things properly.

[Gordon Maney]

Guys,
I was examining the brass bushing from the winch drum bracket that I pressed out. In places it looks like it has some sort of brown substance, like a dried lacquer, on its outside where it contacted the bracket hole.
Is there an adhesive that is normally applied to the inside of the bracket before the bushing is pressed in?
I do not know if this was tied to a previous reaming attempt, as you mention needing to ream these bushings.
I expect to receive the replacement bracket soon and want to assemble things properly.

I would say no. A part installed with an interference fit would not retain any applied substance anyway. I would make sure that bore is very clean and press it in with nothing more than a bit of oil or WD40 to help it go home.

[Doc Dave]

That makes sense Gordon. But, the hole in the old bracket was grooved, not what I expected. Perhaps some "goop" was used because of this grooving present and get a good seal to the bushing. I think I need to take a picture.

[Gordon Maney]

That makes sense Gordon. But, the hole in the old bracket was grooved, not what I expected. Perhaps some "goop" was used because of this grooving present and get a good seal to the bushing. I think I need to take a picture.

A picture would be interesting, yes.

[maineSS]

If you are referring to the groove in the leg casting, that is a grease channel to allow the bushing hole to receive grease from the fitting regardless of its position- you can press the bushing in without lining it up precisely with the grease fitting. Makes life a lot easier. The "brown goop" may be dried grease.

[maineSS]

Doc-

Once again the PM function does not work, so I'll address your bushing reaming question here.

Basically, you want to measure the interior and exterior dia of the bushing as received and compare it to the exterior dia of the shaft and the interior dia of the leg housing. Take several measurements with a dial caliper and average them. You want a 2-3 thou oversize on the bushing dia as a press fit into the leg, which will show up as 2-3 thou undersize on the bushing interior dia after it's pressed in.

The interior dia of the bushing after reaming is theoretically supposed to be 1 thou larger than the shaft, this was too tight in my case, and I ended up at 2 thou over on both bushings. The safest way is to ream the bushing out after press fit with a reamer- expensive if you don't know the exact size. The manufacturer can control shaft and bushing lot sizes, you can't.

If you have confidence in your measurements, you can bore out the bushing prior to press fit by 1/2 or 2/3 the amount it's going to shrink to save reaming time. Then you have to make a tool like I did (check page 2 of the post) to sand out the remaining interior dia and sneak up on the final fit after the bushing has been pressed in. It's the most time-consuming part of the rebuild.

I used a 1/2" electric drill to turn the sanding tool, and would sand a little, measure, trial fit, sand some more till I got a free-turning shaft with no bind on both sides. Be sure you're lined up square with the bushing when you're sanding- a machinist's vice in a mill helps a lot, but I did OK freehand.

[Gordon Maney]

I just did some investigating with regard to the PM [private messaging] system. It is enabled and it does work. Private Messaging is only possible for magazine subscribers and premium forum users.

I am reminded in my investigation that each user wanting to use these features must go into the UserCP [user control panel] to options, and make appropriate selections enabling private messaging and email for their user account. You two are both subscribers, so you both have these features available.

I am guessing that at least one of you is not set up correctly, not yet having made those selections.

One comment about the PM and Email systems. I discourage use of them as an alternative to posting useful information, for what amount to selfish reasons. We want to be able to read useful content, and if you only send it to the recipient of your note, then we miss that, become sad, and ultimately despondent.

Consequently, I am glad the messaging was not available to you, as it prompted you to offer this great post! Great contribution, and thank you.

All the best....
Gordon

[Doc Dave]

I get PM from time to time so I wonder if Maine's is not set up yet?
Anyhow, point well taken about sharing all...
Question. Could one use a brake hone in a drill to remove material from the inside of the bushing for clearance of the shaft? I do not have a lathe yet. Also I was thinking the hone turning would help prevent taking too much material in one place?