Winch Repair & Rebuild

[Gordon Maney]

I get PM from time to time so I wonder if Maine's is not set up yet?
Anyhow, point well taken about sharing all...
Question. Could one use a brake hone in a drill to remove material from the inside of the bushing for clearance of the shaft? I do not have a lathe yet. Also I was thinking the hone turning would help prevent taking too much material in one place?

Yes, you could, though it would be slow, but that is not all bad in such an instance. There may be some tendency of the stones to load with the bronze, also.

I should not admit this, but years ago I had a repair in place situation on a motorcycle; I fitted a new wrist pin bushing and honed it in place with a wheel cylinder hone. I did not have to remove the engine and disassemble the crankcase that way.

[Doc Dave]

I tried the brake hone, you are right, very slow. The stones are very fine and as such do not remove material fast enough. Also worried I will load them up.
I may try and figure out something like Maine showed on page 2. I wish I had a lathe right now!

[Doc Dave]

I figured out a simple way to ream the inside of the bushing so it would fit the drum shaft. I found on my shelf a 1 1/4" socket which had an O.D. just a bit smaller in diameter than the inner diameter of the bushing. I then took some 80 grit sticky back body shop abrasive paper which comes on a roll and stuck it around the socket pressing it down tightly.

This created an abrasive "drum" that exactly matched the bushing. It fit with almost no excess clearance in the bushing, and I was able to turn it with one hand and feel it working- taking the brass off the high spots.

After several revolutions I took it over and it fit very nicely on the drum shaft; I could turn it with one hand, but without any "slop" that I could feel.

I then used my 20 ton press and pressed it into the new bracket. A good feeling!

I will post pictures when the winch is all together.
.

[Gordon Maney]

I figured out a simple way to ream the inside of the bushing so it would fit the drum shaft. I found on my shelf a 1 1/4" socket which had an O.D. just a bit smaller in diameter than the inner diameter of the bushing. I then took some 80 grit sticky back body shop abrasive paper which comes on a roll and stuck it around the socket pressing it down tightly.

This created an abrasive "drum" that exactly matched the bushing. It fit with almost no excess clearance in the bushing, and I was able to turn it with one hand and feel it working- taking the brass off the high spots.

After several revolutions I took it over and it fit very nicely on the drum shaft; I could turn it with one hand, but without any "slop" that I could feel.

I then used my 20 ton press and pressed it into the new bracket. A good feeling!

I will post pictures when the winch is all together.
.

Good job!

[Clint Dixon]

I would say no. A part installed with an interference fit would not retain any applied substance anyway. I would make sure that bore is very clean and press it in with nothing more than a bit of oil or WD40 to help it go home.

I have to respectively disagree with Gordon.

I worked as a machinist in two machine shops. These were not automotive machine shops. They were industrial machine shops.

In the first shop I learned the shop standard practice of ALWAYS coating with anti-seize any parts being pressed together. This included bearing races and some pretty tight interference fits on very large industrial shafts and hubs. Sometimes, we would have to disassemble the parts later AFTER we had assembled them the first time. When using the anti-seize, I never saw any galling between the parts. There was always anti-seize remaining between the parts regardless of how tight the press fit had been.

In the second shop I learned the shop standard practice of NEVER coating parts being pressed together with anything. Again, we found times where we had to disassemble parts later after we had first assembled them. In almost every case, the mating parts had galled with the first assembly. Usually there was no outward appearance while the parts were still assembled that this had happened. Only upon disassembly, could the galling be seen. Usually galling was found in both directions - separate galling from both the assembly and the disassembly.

[Gordon Maney]

I have to respectively disagree with Gordon.

I worked as a machinist in two machine shops. These were not automotive machine shops. They were industrial machine shops.

In the first shop I learned the shop standard practice of ALWAYS coating with anti-seize any parts being pressed together. This included bearing races and some pretty tight interference fits on very large industrial shafts and hubs. Sometimes, we would have to disassemble the parts later AFTER we had assembled them the first time. When using the anti-seize, I never saw any galling between the parts. There was always anti-seize remaining between the parts regardless of how tight the press fit had been.

In the second shop I learned the shop standard practice of NEVER coating parts being pressed together with anything. Again, we found times where we had to disassemble parts later after we had first assembled them. In almost every case, the mating parts had galled with the first assembly. Usually there was no outward appearance while the parts were still assembled that this had happened. Only upon disassembly, could the galling be seen. Usually galling was found in both directions - separate galling from both the assembly and the disassembly.

At least you were respectful.

:-)

Interesting. It makes sense. In the galling instances, were the parts of similar materials?

In conveyor screws we used black iron shafts in stainless conveyor screws, because if you used stainless shafts in stainless screws you could not get them out some of the time due to galling.

I am not sure you would see galling between a bronze bushing and a cast iron bore. Do you disagree?

I would not put anti-seize on a bearing race before putting in a hub, would you? I want it to go fully home.

[Clint Dixon]

At least you were respectful.

:-)

Interesting. It makes sense. In the galling instances, were the parts of similar materials?

In conveyor screws we used black iron shafts in stainless conveyor screws, because if you used stainless shafts in stainless screws you could not get them out some of the time due to galling.

I am not sure you would see galling between a bronze bushing and a cast iron bore. Do you disagree?

I would not put anti-seize on a bearing race before putting in a hub, would you? I want it to go fully home.

I have become such a fan of anti-seize that I would consider putting some on my cheese if it were found to be causing a binding problem. ;^)

Yes, the instances involved similar materials. Self lubricating materials like bronze and plastics did not present a problem. I can't say I remember working with many castings in the shops. I did some work with old cast parts for customers with antique tractors, but it was mainly repairing damaged bores, stripped out threads, and broken off chunks. I don't think I ever had to press anything into one of those cast parts. At home, I can not get castings perfectly clean. It seems they become somewhat self lubricating because of the natural porosity trapping old lubrication. The fits also tend to be a lot more loose on what I typically work with at home, so no, I do not usually anti seize bearing races in my hubs for instance. I would consider these to be a "light interference" fit.

The worst one I remember involved line boring the center connecting pivots on both halves of a log skidder, in a barn, on a dirt floor, in dim lighting, and using lots of heat, dry ice, and a big hammer to get the bushings in place. Galling was the least of our concerns on that job.

[Gordon Maney]

Actually, similar materials can be a problem even when it is not an interference, fit. The shafts and screws I mentioned were not an interference fit, they were a slip fit.

[maineSS]

Doc-

Now that you've pressed in the bushing, you'll have to ream it back to it's pre-installed dia.

[Doc Dave]

Not sure why, but even after pressing the bushing in, the drum shaft turns pretty freely with the bracket installed.
I would have expected it to be slightly smaller in diameter after installation.

[Gordon Maney]

Not sure why, but even after pressing the bushing in, the drum shaft turns pretty freely with the bracket installed.
I would have expected it to be slightly smaller in diameter after installation.

It must not have much of an interference fit.

All things considered, I would proceed.

[maineSS]

Doc-

Is there a hole in the bushing for grease flow to the shaft? If not, you'll have to drill one thru the grease fitting hole. You have to be careful not to wipe out the threads. The grease fitting isn't centered on the bushing length, so if you have a pre-drilled bushing, you have to make sure the hole will line up with the grease slot BEFORE you press it in- there's only one way it's supposed to go in, although it will fit either way.

When you're measuring a bushing after reaming, you'll often find "high" spots- if the bushing is good elsewhere for clearance, it's best to scrape these spots down with a machinist's scraper to avoid hogging out the bushing.

Gordon- all my PM stuff was enabled, but- it still doesn't send my messages.

[Doc Dave]

Yes,
I lined up the hole in the bushing with the grease nipple when I pressed it in.
The guy that had the winch previously had it "out of phase" as far as the hole line up. He also had overloaded the winch as I mentioned before as the front angle bracket and drum bracket were significantly bent, and the rear angle bracket was bent a little.
This winch rebuild has been 2 steps foward and 1 back the whole time.
I "thought" I was done. But when I bolted everything up after pressing the bushing in, I can see that the drum bracket needs to be moved out about 1/8-3/16" for everthing to work right...I can't fully engage the dog clutch lever handle into its slot without a bit more travel by the drum to the passenger side.
When I decided to replace the front bracket and straighten the rear angle iron bracket back, I did my best to recreate the hole placement. But I was off slightly. SO, I will fill the holes in the angle with a piece of 1/2" steel rod, and then re drill the holes out just a tad.
Then I will be DONE! who hoo!

[maineSS]

The real fun part is getting everything to line up with the truck frame- these holes can move far from their factory positions over the years. You'll likely find shimming is necessary between the winch and truck frame to ensure bind-free performance as you rotate the drum shaft after all the bolts are torqued up.

[Doc Dave]

My son came over yesterday and we got the winch mounted...with a lot of moving and pulling of the bumpers to get all the bolts in. I still have all the bolts loose-that is a good thought you suggested to make sure the shaft is turning o.k. when I tighten everthing down. It all looks pretty good, although the frame extensions are divergent a little to make the bolts work at the end of the winch frame.