Calling all Saginaw PS Experts

[W_A_Watson_II]

OK, I replaced the PS box, drained the old fluid out, installed a serviceable return line filter and filled with fresh fluid and bleed the air out. And the problem has returned after one lap around the neighborhood.

Back in 09 I started having a problem with the steering getting stiff and the pump/belt squalling. With the proximity of the PS pump/line to the exhaust manifold I figured the fluid/pump had gotten too hot. SO I replaced the pump, added a cooler and heat shield. Well the problem continued, so back then I replaced the steering box as well. Well, the problem mostly (not 100% completely) went away, that is until last year. It got so bad that once while driving down a hill (on a trail) I could not turn to avoid a tree, and had to stop, and have someone pull me back up until the steering responded so I could turn and avoid it and go on down the hill.

The problem happens regardless of direction turning, setting still or moving, or engine speed.

So after talking to a few guys, and Matt driving it in Iowa he was like me and most others, that there was something with the box, so I replaced it today.

At first after getting the air out, everything was great, one trip around the neighborhood, all was fine, then suddenly it was back.

So do I replace the pump again? The fluid is still clear and clean, and looks just like it did when I poured it in.

Any suggestions ideas? Considering pulling the belt off and seeing how it derives with out the pump running.

Help,
Will

[Gordon Maney]

Help me to understand the symptoms. You are unable to turn the wheel, to make it steer?

....and the pump belt squeals?

[W_A_Watson_II]

Yep, that's the problem. It happens when moving, setting still and regardless of engine speed. No rime or reason and unpredictable.

[Gordon Maney]

I gather you have had extended periods of time with this truck where it worked fine, though, is that correct?

[W_A_Watson_II]

Yea, up until 09 no issue, the it started. After changing everything except the high pressure hose, the problem went was gone with an occasional issue, but it came back last year with a high rate of occurrence. The only time it caused a problem was going down hill on a trail.

[Steve G]

Hey Will, any possibility of the drag link or tie rod tube catching on anything?

[W_A_Watson_II]

Not that I've seen or noticed, but will look good again. Had wondered if it might be axle/tract-a-joint, but last June I pulled both to check them for any issues. Problem was there before, and after.

[Gordon Maney]

Your history certainly you have the correct parts. Meaning, it works a good share of the time, so you have the right parts connected correctly.

What if we had no pump output? No available pressure. Would it feel the same? Would it feel like you have experienced?

[W_A_Watson_II]

If I pull the belt off so no pump, I should be able to verify that it's nothing mechanical, and pump/hose related?

[Gordon Maney]

No, I am asking that because I am wondering if your pump output is not available during this failure. I am not able to imagine a problem in your steering gear that could cause this.

You have had this problem through multiple pumps and steering gears. What does that leave? There isn't anything else, so it must be one of them.

So..... I am wondering if you could duplicate the symptoms by removing the belt.

One thing that bothers me, however, is you say the belt squeals. That suggests the pump is working, but it is encountering a huge load, in effect.

If the pressure relief valve in the pump stuck open, you would likely not get good steering gear operation, but the belt should not squeal. Hmmm.

If the valve stuck closed you would get plenty of pressure, but the gear should work. The belt might squeal, then, though, when working against gear action/operation. Hmmm.

[W_A_Watson_II]

The only part not replaced is the high pressure hose. It's been suggested it may be failing, and causing the blockage, but if it's not providing pressure to the box shouldn't I steal be able to steer?

I'll pull the belt to morrow and see what I get.

[Gordon Maney]

The only part not replaced is the high pressure hose. It's been suggested it may be failing, and causing the blockage, but if it's not providing pressure to the box shouldn't I steal be able to steer?

I'll pull the belt to morrow and see what I get.

Not knowing the exact construction of the hose, it is possible that the hose is delaminating internally. This happens sometimes with brake hoses The delaminated layer blocks off the hose, preventing flow.

I don't know that you can count on an unpowered, power gear to provide the same mechanical advantage as a manual gear, particularly if there is different pitman arm geometry.

Try a different hose. What about the return line? Is it new? Would it be hard to eliminate this return filter for diagnostic purposes?

[W_A_Watson_II]

The hose was a new custom built hose in 2007. The pitman arm is stock and replaced in 2010 along with a new Intermediate arm pivot pin.

Going over and over this in my mind while trying to fall asleep, I'm coming to the conclusion that it's nothing to do with the PS Pump, Box or Hoses. If it was the hose I'd expect it to squeal from time to time even when not turning the wheel, as there is always pressure in the hose. the problem only happens sometimes when turning, regardless of direction.

I'm wondering if it's something in the ball/sockets, or even the intermediate idler arm pivot. Not sure what would be left after that.

Will

[Desoto61]

The hose was a new custom built hose in 2007. The pitman arm is stock and replaced in 2010 along with a new Intermediate arm pivot pin.

Going over and over this in my mind while trying to fall asleep, I'm coming to the conclusion that it's nothing to do with the PS Pump, Box or Hoses. If it was the hose I'd expect it to squeal from time to time even when not turning the wheel, as there is always pressure in the hose. the problem only happens sometimes when turning, regardless of direction.

I'm wondering if it's something in the ball/sockets, or even the intermediate idler arm pivot. Not sure what would be left after that.

Will

Should be easy to determine if it's the steering or the axle. Just disconnect the steering linkage at various locations, start the truck and pretend you're in your favorite car chase scene.

[W_A_Watson_II]

Results after some test and a drive

With out the PS Belt - This sucks!

Gee, boy was it hard to steer with out the PS belt attached. Even after adding air to the front tires.

Stiff, hard two handed steering, so much so I didn't go for. Put it on jack stands and steering seems smooth, but still a little more resistance than I like. Takes more than one finger for lock to lock.

Only play in the steering is in the intermediate arm bushing/pin area. Everything accepts grease with no issue.

Wondered if the knuckle lower steering bearings are in need of service? I installed bearings when I rebuilt the front in 05 rather than the bushings.


Re-Installed the PS Belt and ...

Well, I re-installed and tightened good and tight the PS Belt.

On the jack stands, easy as pie, no squeals, but have noticed a tougher spot at about 1/2 right turn.

Two laps around the neighborhood, and all is good, no squalls and easy steering. So off to town to return the PS box and see how it does on a longer drive.

Guess the belt was a little loose. But with the steering locking up before and no matter how hard I tried to turn it wouldn't, I suspect the box had a problem as well. If not, oh well it was only time and fluid cost as the box was under warranty.


Results after a 20 mile drive ...

I took the opportunity to use the M to return the old box back to O'Rielly's and see how everything worked.

The steering is back to it's original great feel and power assist with no binding or squalling.

Looks like the box was probably bad as well as a loose belt. So all is good (for now).

Hopefully I've got it licked for a little while at least.

Thanks,
Will