Bodywork

[creinemann]

Originally posted by JimmieD
AHA! Now I see.....but I missed it the first time.

The secret to creinemann's success: HE HAS THREE ARMS AND THREE HANDS!!! No wonder this stuff seems like child's play to him, when he always has an able helper hanging around there waiting to pitch in at a moment's notice. Must be mighty nice to be able to slice off another piece of roast beef as you simultaneously stuff more mashed potatoes and gravy down the hatch.

Not to cause you any embarrasment, but I'd really like to see some pics. Maybe I can get my sawbones working on an upgrade....? :~ )

JimmieD

Ahh but there are drawbacks- five extra knuckles to bust, and third elbow to bang!

[RickL]

status

Sorry for the lack of updates. Patch went well the second time. All painted up now. I will post a pic when I get a chance.

Rick

[RickL]

Doors

Driver's side door is pretty well dented in along the top half. Any tips suggestions prior to starting work?

Rick

[Gordon Maney]

Driver's side door is pretty well dented in along the top half. Any tips suggestions prior to starting work?

Rick

How about a picture to define the problem?

[Bruce]

Picture's

We want picture's!

[RickL]

Will do

I will try to get some pics posted.

Rick

[Ugg013]

Bodywork On The Beast....

Hey:

It's been insane here in Uggville, trying to get the Beast done for the Volo show. I'm sorry to say that our goal of having the bodywork done and the Beast painted will NOT happen. At this point, we may not even get it running in time. So, if we do make it, the Beast will go as a "WORK IN PROGRESS".

Anywho, I've been documenting the work as it happens for a later posting, as I am doing some things a bit different, and using some stuff that has not mentioned here before. Today however, we had a visitor that stopped by to supervise the work.

Later
Ugg

[Bruce]

Whats Going On?

We enjoy a falcon or two here,as well as owls & foxes, but we still get our pictures posted.

[Ugg013]

Bruce:

Yeah, falcons are making a comeback here too. One day I was in the law library in downtown Chicago, I think it was the 23rd floor, and all of a sudden a falcon landed on the ledge outside the window I was by. That was so cool watchin it. BTW, the picture above is of a male Red Tailed Hawk. The females are bigger.

Later
Ugg

[JimmieD]

Well, I wouldn't say they're actually making a comeback out west here, but I spotted one the other day. I think it was about a '62, no rust and seemed to run good....

[JimmieD]

Bodywork: Doing some stuff on my Town Wagon and fortunately a 35 year "NO BONDO!" bodyman friend drops by from time to time. I have a prior rollover [onto the side and bruising the top sides] and rear ended twice, VERY hard. Problem: no reference points left of original dimensions or angles.

Necessary to level the frame rails true to the earth by jacking and blocking and then check if they are still square and rails perpindicular. Measuring between the rails I can find a center, and working up the length of frame I can check for tweaks or waves in the sides of frame rails. As it is a station wagon I have an opening in the rear, so is it square to the frame? With the frame true to the earth I can drop a plumb bob from centerline of the top frame of the door opening and intersect bottom/floor centerline mark. Then I measure out from top centerline at angles downward to identical reference points on both sides of opening to see how bad the tweak is. Easiest with a piece of angle temporaily fastened to top and bottom centerline reference marks in door opening.

From the bottom mark I measure out at an angle to a point on the sides of opening near the top and make a mark. I then shoot from center to the other side at an angle up to the same place and make a measurement. Same? Repeating the process from top centerline mark down to points on lower sides of opening I do the same thing. This establishes reference points and I can now visually see the amount of twist or whatever at the rear doors opening.

To correct I must apply force. In some cases only a pulling force is possible, in other cases an hydraulic ram Porta Power will do the trick. It is easy to overshoot. The ram forces the metal back but there is a compound memory in the steel. One set of grain stresses is from the damage, another is from the original shape of the metals. I only want to overcome the damage's stresses and not those original metal memories. Therefore I must know the direction of impact and try to duplicate in reverse to correct the problem. I can make some trial ram shots and see how much the metal wants to shrink back when pressure is released. Knowing the average resistance to force caused by memories and seeing it return to shape after pressure is removed from trial runs I may come close to desired effect without overshooting and having to correct again. Less than an exact science....

Note: a 3" error only requires a 1 1/2" correction or else you've now made an error in the opposite direction. Also a door misalinged by 3/4" inch at its farthest point from hinge may only require 1/8" correction at hinge to true up, like a lever effect. In all of the Porta Power/Come-along stuff, EASY DOES IT and WORK SAFE! Lots of torque working there so be prepared.

JimmieD

[Gordon Maney]

Bodywork: Doing some stuff on my Town Wagon and fortunately a 35 year "NO BONDO!" bodyman friend drops by from time to time. I have a prior rollover [onto the side and bruising the top sides] and rear ended twice, VERY hard. Problem: no reference points left of original dimensions or angles.

Necessary to level the frame rails true to the earth by jacking and blocking and then check if they are still square and rails perpindicular. Measuring between the rails I can find a center, and working up the length of frame I can check for tweaks or waves in the sides of frame rails. As it is a station wagon I have an opening in the rear, so is it square to the frame? With the frame true to the earth I can drop a plumb bob from the top frame and intersect bottom centerline mark. Then I measure out from centerline to identical reference points on sides of opening to see how bad the tweak is. Easiest with a piece of angle temporaily fastened to top and bottom centerline reference marks.

From the bottom mark I measure out at an angle to a point on the sides of opening near the top and make a mark. I then shoot from center to the other side at an angle up to the same place and make a measurement. Same? Repeating the process from top centerline mark down to points on lower sides of opening I do the same thing. This establishes reference points and I can now visually see the amount of twist or whatever at the rear doors opening.

To correct I must apply force. In some cases only a pulling force is possible, in other cases an hydraulic ram Porta Power will do the trick. It is easy to overshoot. The ram forces the metal back but there is a compound memory in the steel. One set of grain stresses is from the damage, another is from the original shape of the metals. I only want to overcome the damage's stresses and not those original metal memories. Therefore I must know the direction of impact and try to duplicate in reverse to correct the problem. I can make some trial ram shots and see how much the metal wants to shrink back when pressure is released. Knowing the average resistance to force caused by memories and seeing it return to shape after pressure is removed from trial runs I may come close to desired effect without overshooting and having to correct again. Less than an exact science....

Note: a 3" error only requires a 1 1/2" correction or else you've now made an error in the opposite direction. Also a door misalinged by 3/4" inch at its farthest point from hinge may only require 1/8" correction at hinge to true up, like a lever effect. In all of the Porta Power/Come-along stuff, EASY DOES IT and WORK SAFE! Lots of torque working there so be prepared.

JimmieD

Perhaps I missed this in my hurried reading, preparing to leave town to look at some industrial shelves/racks to organize my shop, but don't forget diagonal measurements from various points on the frame. They can be very revealing and helpful in diagnosis of your frame's condition.

[JimmieD]

Perhaps I missed this in my hurried reading, preparing to leave town to look at some industrial shelves/racks to organize my shop, but don't forget diagonal measurements from various points on the frame. They can be very revealing and helpful in diagnosis of your frame's condition.

Yes, that's actually what I'm describing in the post above. Problem is in some circumstances even the reference points for diagonals are twisted or smashed beyond measuring! That was the case with mine so a slightly different method of diagonals is described above. The result is the same and it actually gives dual diagonals which can be cross referenced: one diagonal on each side, and then balance the two. Happy shopping :~ )

[JimmieD]

Yo, Gordon: I reworded some of that blurb above hoping to better describe the work. Hope it reads better, and if not somebody tell me what's confusing [other than me].....

[Nick]

Talk about motivation

I read this thread first to last while on duty the other nite. The amount of information here is un believable.

I must say I was in the same position, I wasnt sure if I should pay to have the body work done, get all different sheet metal and hope to find a cab in good shape. But, as I found on Joe's site in another poll, I'm a purist. To me, it means alot to have all the original sheet metal from my truck as it came off the assembly line.

This is my first attempt at any kind of project like this. I have aboslutley no auto experience at all. But, I am a fire fighter so I am mechanically inclined. Ive taught myself alot, and have learned alot from this site and from Joe's. Mostly I sit back and read and take it all in. But once in awhile I need to say something. And this thread did just that.

I will be going to Harbor Freight this week to get a set of their auto body dollies and hammers, nothing good or expensive. As with all the other tools I've bought, unless I get another PW after this one, these tools will be a one time use thing. I'd love another one, but space is a problem. I live in a tract home and have two everyday trucks, and the PW in the driveway, and an M101 trailer in my garage.

Anyway, rambling aside, thanks to the people that know what they know for sharing with those of us who dont.

I am looking forward to getting started on my body work, since I almost have the chassis and drive train done, just a little work left on them.

Ok, long drawn out story for a question now. My truck has about six or seven coats of paint on the outsides. The interior cab and engine side of the firewall, and under side of the hood are all the original color, and luckily the same color I want to paint it, submarine green. But, since there is so much paint on the outsides, how do I remove all of that to be able to have a surface to work with? Is it just pure elbow grease and sanding? Seems like it'll be A TON of sanding and paper to remove it all. I was gonna blast it. But I heard it may warp the metal.

I just wanna get started on it since the chassis is almost done.

Then, I'll be close to the steps talked about here, and attacking all the rust.

Thanks so much for the motivation to try the body work myself. I just hope its as fun and kinda as easy as you guys have made it sound.

Thanks
Nick