1962 M37 Newbie in Maryland

[jrodjared]

Got the new carburetor, fuel pump, coil, and Pektronics ignition. Working on putting them in today. Made some pretty good progress.

[carter davidson]

With new carburetor, fuel pump, coil, and Pertronics ignition that engine should be easy to start and keep running. Road trip in the near future?

[jrodjared]

Running yes, stopping... well that's the next project :-)

[jrodjared]

So some bad news came along my way. While I was working on the truck the other day, I got it fired up and could keep it running like seen in this video here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

It just had no ability to rev up, and it was spitting up black, liquid gunk through the carb. So I pulled the plugs and did a compression test, which I should have done way earlier on. To my disappointment, these were the results in order from 1-6:


0,50,0,0,0,20

And when I say 0, I mean not even a budge of the needle. I asked a few people around the shop to verify and make sure I was using the tool correctly, and they said I was. I probably should have figured this out before putting all the money and time in to new parts like the carb and fuel pump. The only thing I can think of that may be throwing it off so much is maybe the head isn't sitting right? I pulled it off because I had the stuck spark plug. Before putting it back on though, I buffed down the surfaces and cleaned everything up, plus installed a new gasket with the copper spray. It did have a slight mismatch in the alignment, which you can see from my previous pics in this post, but it didn't look as if it were going to leak. I am also missing one of the screws from the top of the head that holds that little bracket for the two vacuum lines. It's around somewhere. So those are the only two things I can think that may throw off the test. Thoughts?

I poured some Seafoam down in the block. If that doesn't free stuff up, which I don't think it will, I figure I have these options:

1. Pull the motor and find some place to help me rebuild it from the block up. This keeps it stock.

2. Pull the motor and scrap it, replace with a crate motor.

3. Try to rebuild it while it is still in the truck. Someone suggested dropping the oil pan, but I'm not sure I am ready for that.

I've about reached my level of expertise here. I am a hobbyist/enthusiast with little to no qualified skills to work on this thing. Plus, it's costing me $75 to store it at the garage where I work on it, and about $30 a day for the bay.

So I am asking you guys what your opinion is here? I'm sure that the gut reaction is to say keep her stock. However, if I go with a newer motor, I could potentially swap out the transmission too and get something that could be a bit more versatile for highway driving (I live in a city). I could also look in to getting a transfer case with super low gears for off roading too, which is something I considered.

What do you guys think?

[Gordon Maney]

A first question.... I watched your video. No radiator, and no water in it? You ran it that way?

I admit it does sound like my neighbor's 2-cylinder John Deeres, but I am surprised it would run on two cylinders. Also, if you truly have only 20 psi in the one cylinder, then I don't see that one running, either. Even 50 seems to low to function, so there is something I am not understanding here.

Regarding what to do, this is a big fork in the road with distinctively different choices. Most of the answer to that question must come from you. Either remain original, or fairly so, or not. You won't find what you term a crate motor if you take the original side of the fork in this road you travel. Also, removing the pan is enormously easier than any engine conversion you could ever do.

You could learn a lot by removing the head, which is easy to remove. After it is off, crank the engine and see if all valves move up and down, and if they fully seat. Look at the cylinder walls.

Let's stop running it with no water.

Edit: I looked a bit more and see you did have the head off. Did the valves operate? Did you adjust them? Perhaps you have less than the correct amount of clearance, or no clearance at all, holding the valves open.

[Bruce]

Tough Question

But one that can only be answered by you.
I would go stock, but that is me? A DD, with driving gears will require some new/good stopping power also. (Disk Conversion)
The list can be as long or as short as you want it to be. Don't forget the storage & work bay fees.
I hope I didn't muddy the waters too much, but you did ask.
JM2$W,

[jrodjared]

Hey Gordon,

I had the head off and cranked it by hand. All the parts were moving. Number 6 valves were sticking a little bit, but not too bad. That was one of the cylinders that actually had compression. I probably should have inspected the cylinder walls a little better, maybe I should attempt that before making any major decision.

What to do, what to do.......

Hey Carter, you out there? I called you yesterday while working on it, maybe we can get you to Fort Meade for an experts opinion.

[Gordon Maney]

All the valves were moving, but did they close fully and display valve clearance at the stem tip?

Unless you have decided just now to replace the engine, I would say the head needs to come back off. You need to see what the valves are truly doing.

Did you adjust the valves? Was the throttle wired open when you did your compression test?

All or most of your answers are under that head, and also relating to valve lash. I had a guy once who could not get his Allis Chalmers WD45 to run after he worked on it. What I discovered was that he had no clearance at any valve, as a result of having adjusted them incorrectly, all were being held open, and there was no compression in any cylinder.

[Bruce]

Carter's Da Man

Hey Gordon,

I had the head off and cranked it by hand. All the parts were moving. Number 6 valves were sticking a little bit, but not too bad. That was one of the cylinders that actually had compression. I probably should have inspected the cylinder walls a little better, maybe I should attempt that before making any major decision.

What to do, what to do.......


Hey Carter, you out there? I called you yesterday while working on it, maybe we can get you to Fort Meade for an experts opinion.

That sounds like a good idea, Carter can give some good advice!

[jrodjared]

All the valves were moving, but did they close fully and display valve clearance at the stem tip?

Unless you have decided just now to replace the engine, I would say the head needs to come back off. You need to see what the valves are truly doing.

Did you adjust the valves? Was the throttle wired open when you did your compression test?

All or most of your answers are under that head, and also relating to valve lash. I had a guy once who could not get his Allis Chalmers WD45 to run after he worked on it. What I discovered was that he had no clearance at any valve, as a result of having adjusted them incorrectly, all were being held open, and there was no compression in any cylinder.

Hey Gordon, is there a thread started on how to check this? Is it in one of the TM's?

[Gordon Maney]

Your M-series service manual will cover valve adjustment.

[carter davidson]

Sorry I missed your call, have a lot on my plate this weekend and still should be "at it" but am taking a breather here in the A/C.

I think Gordon's on the right track when he suggested that the head should be removed and the valves and cylinders re-inspected. One question does come to mind however, Jared did you perform a wet and dry compression test? The wet one would indicate if the problem of low compression is associated with bad rings; where as dry is more about valve condition. If we can get together we can checkout the valve lash, re-test compression and feel confident we can put anwsers to a lot of those questions.

Guess I'd better pack my tool boxes and hit the road, how does it look for next weekend Jared? Feel free to call again, I'll keep the phone nearby this time.

Valve adjust info on pages 143-144, TM 9-8030

[jrodjared]

Sorry I missed your call, have a lot on my plate this weekend and still should be "at it" but am taking a breather here in the A/C.

I think Gordon's on the right track when he suggested that the head should be removed and the valves and cylinders re-inspected. One question does come to mind however, Jared did you perform a wet and dry compression test? The wet one would indicate if the problem of low compression is associated with bad rings; where as dry is more about valve condition. If we can get together we can checkout the valve lash, re-test compression and feel confident we can put anwsers to a lot of those questions.

Guess I'd better pack my tool boxes and hit the road, how does it look for next weekend Jared? Feel free to call again, I'll keep the phone nearby this time.

Valve adjust info on pages 143-144, TM 9-8030

I'm down for Saturday or Sunday, or both :-) I'll call you later in the week. Thanks Carter.

[jrodjared]

Build update: Poured some Seafoam down the head to see if I got any results, that didn't do a darn thing, so on to the next test.

I took the check valve out of the compression tester fitting so I could send air down the opposite direction. Hooked compressed air (about 150psi) up to it and connected to various cylinders and found that indeed only #2 and #6 hold any kind of compression. The others just blow air out the carb, even when I hand cranked the motor to different positions. I have a video here to demonstrate my experiment:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

You can't see me, but I am hand cranking the motor at 1:30.

My educated guess at this point is maybe some of the springs are worn out because it was sitting so long? Perhaps they were in a compressed state, and now they just can't provide the force needed to close the valves properly?

I'm in the process of taking the intake and exhaust manifolds off so I can get to the valve cover and check things out. Also going to take the head off again and do some poking around.

Thoughts?

[jrodjared]

Update number two: Pulled off the intake manifold and head, discovered no moving valves, as illustrated here:

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

My conclusion, broken camshaft? Thinking of rebuilding the engine, although it's a little out of my realm. I'm certainly not a mechanic. Thoughts?