New M37 owner

[jmacqueen]

Well I got the cab of the frame yesterday, just engine to pull and I'm ready to start cleaning, painting and re-assembling... I still have a few questions though.

Who here has used POR15 for their frame, I'd like to get a good idea how well it holds up, or how well it takes a coat of paint. That and can it go on straight on to sandblasted metal or does need to have an etching treatment first?

Then there's paint. I've searched and read and still don't have it figured out what a '53 should have on it. I'm thinking red oxide primer and gillespie paint as everyone seems to be using it and happy with that.

I kind of like this color(see pic below), I see a lot of trucks this color and finish, but is it a correct color and what number would I order for it?

[OLD DODGE]

I used POR once. I put it on clean metal. Used the prep supplied with kit. It came off within 6 months. I live on a dirt road.

If you are sandblasting the frame you might be better off powder coating or using a highly durable paint. I think POR is exactly what it stands for. PAINT OVER RUST. If your not stripping the rust POR might do the job.

[jmacqueen]

Hmm that's what I'm worried about, this will definitely be clean metal. If it doesn't hold up to gravel bouncing off it from the road I'd rather just use a decent chassis paint. The truck will be seeing a lot of dirt/gravel roads.

[Keith Nattrass]

Did the same thinking and debate as to what to use on the frame. Ended up using chemical stripper and powerwasher to get the frame/axles/chassis bare. Had to let it set and it got a little surface rust. Working with the local PPG technical rep, they sell POR and a product called CRE - corrosion resistant epoxy. A short gal runs about $42 and the catalyst is another $28. CRE can be tinted. The vehicle in your photo is #24087 color. Can be sprayed or brushed. I scuff sanded the surface rust and wiped with degreaser. I brushed 2 coats. CRE needs a top coat if exposed to sun, but for the frame was ok without. Like any epoxy, time between coats is important. If you leave it for a while, then you have to scuff and spray on another light coat. Seems pretty solid.

[W_A_Watson_II]

I used POR-15

I had the frame sandblasted, and a few small areas were real smooth, and not lightly rusted, but clean after blasting. The POR on one of these areas has came off a little, so either I did not prep it well, or the smooth steel doesn't allow it enough bite to stay.

[MoparNorm]

Hmm that's what I'm worried about, this will definitely be clean metal. If it doesn't hold up to gravel bouncing off it from the road I'd rather just use a decent chassis paint. The truck will be seeing a lot of dirt/gravel roads.

Sadly, many have used POR 15 in error. It's for CONVERTING rust, NOT for painting with.
If the surface is clean or not rusted it will NOT adhere properly!!!!
I suppose the theory was, "well, if it converts rust , it should prevent rust.." NO!
POR15 is great, for it's intended purpose, but it was never designed as a paint. Early POR 15 wasn't even supposed to be used as an exposed finish, they have since changed the formula to allow that, but the bottom line is this: use a chassis paint actually designed for that purpose or powder coat and you'll have a good long lasting finish that won't peel off over time.
I 'd use rattle-can rustoleum before I used POR 15 on an unrusted surface.

[jmacqueen]

So it sounds like I need to stay away from POR15. What are the top options for a good tough long lasting chassis coating? I don't think I want to powder coat it, and I figure most will probably be cheaper than POR15 is.

I wasn't even going to go to a frame off, but I had to get rid of the undercoat they sprayed on over dirt and old paint, as the stuff was not adhered and the only real rust is where moisture was leeching in between the undercoat and the frame/body. I just couldn't leave it like that, so it's getting blasted to bare metal. I'm actually pretty happy about not having any rust/cancer repair to do.

I figure the bottom of the cab and bed and fenders etc. will get 3 coats of the red oxide, and three coats of OD green. Maybe followed by a coat of paint on sound deadener while the paint is still fresh and clean.

My plan is to get all the old undercoat off of everything while I'm off for the week of Christmas to new years, and first thing next month get the paint lined up and start sand blasting everything clean and painting parts right after.

That means I have to get my mind made up pretty quick and go see the paint man pretty soon.

I'm hoping to have the truck back on the road before June.

BTW Will or Norm, you wouldn't happen to have the center to center measurements across the front frame rail bolt holes would you? I still have to straighten out those front frame rails. I got the welded on extensions cut off with no damage to the frame rails, and I think I can weld up a little rig to pull the frame rail ends straight, but I can't find the right dimensions to straighten them to.

[MoparNorm]

I don't have the dimensions but I bet Will might.
Go to Eastwood.com and look under Chassis Black Paint.
Also several here have used Mil Spec paint and others have found products by PPG and Dupont products that work well.
It really depends upon the equipment that you have available to you to spray with, as to what product you can apply the easiest and best.
The simpler method is often better and check the temperature guidelines for application. That might be the most critical factor at this time of year.

[W_A_Watson_II]

jmacqueen,

Sorry, with the way my cold, I'm not venturing out to the shop, but my notes here in the house indicate the front frame rails outside measurement should be 30". but I can't 100% confirm that, Sorry.

[jmacqueen]

That's a good start, sorry to hear about your cold hope you get past it quickly.

It's up to 60 degrees here today and sunny, I'm hoping I can get a lot done next week if this weather holds.

Let me know if you can confirm that when you can, I assume both rails outside edge should be vertical and parallel to each other.

[jmacqueen]

Well it's been a while since an update, I got side tracked for a few months as well..

I managed to get the bent frame end straight by welding up some brackets, a rosebud for heating, and a long piece of 3/4 all thread and and an impact gun to pull it straight while heated red. ;) The manual said cherry red is fine, but no hotter.

Checking it for straightness with a good one piece bumper with new frame extensions bolted in as I went. Fits good now.

Got the frame and body parts all blasted and painted. My camera didn't get the color quite right, it's quite a bit darker in reality... Still a few smaller parts I'm blasting and painting in my little booth I made up..





I had the diffs re geared and added ARB lockers via Charles at M-series..

Got the front knuckles rebuilt, new rubber seals, new bearings etc..

I used an Industrial/Marine coating for paint, Sherwin Williams Acrolon 218 HS in semi gloss. I had them match colors to the original green on the frame as close as they could, over epoxy primer. It's taking a long time to cure in the cool weather we're having though.

I also did the 4 wheel disc brake upgrade, next is calipers, MC and all new brake lines to fab up, and then wiring harness..

I'm looking at ordering the reproduction harness at Maine vintage wiring. Does anyone have experience with these folks?

Vintage power wagons also has one, anyone know who's is a better product?

[Bruce]

Vintage Wiring Of Maine

No experience, just word of mouth, I have met them several times at different shows, awful nice folks to talk to! They are all buddies, George Maineri of Vermont Comm'l Salvage, Rick Larsen of Mil Stencil, George from AJP & Vintage Wiring of Maine.
BTW, Your frame & paint are looking sweet!

[MoparNorm]

Great looking crop of parts your growing there!
Nice work!
Vintage Wiring is a big supporter of our hobby, as Bruce said, good people.

[jmacqueen]

Turns out VPW resells the maine wiring harness, so I ordered one through them, I might not see it until January though.

Got all new body pads, new bed floor, new T-case seals with sleeves.. I have the whole brake system ready to plumb now...

Painted the new bed floor today along with other small parts.

The plan is to finish mounting the calipers and the master cylinder tomorrow, I'll get the brake lines and fittings/proportioning valve Monday and plumb that in this week, get th new seals in the transfer case and get it mounted up on new bushings..

Then maybe next weekend get the cab tub and the bed back on on with the new pads, with new bolts in the bed.

Then I can get it back inside the garage where it's warmer to work on it and start getting the body reassembled and re weatherstripped etc..

I still need to pick up a 4bt and a 3053 spicer, and parts to get them together.. I'm thinking about just going with factory reconditioned one, pricey but then I'll know exactly what I have.. I'll see what the cash situation is after taxes... ;)

[Charles Talbert]

Better hurry

Cummins prices are taking a HUGE leap as of Jan.1, '09. You may want to rethink that purchase of a factory reconditioned engine,(Cummins Recon) also. In most cases a recon engine has a core charge attached to it that will rock your world unless you have a core engine to turn in. We keep check on all Cummins options periodically, the recon engines will cost you more than a brand new engine after the core charge gets added in. Every once in a while they will move a few without the core charge if they get overstocked, but those opportunities are few. We deal directly with a Cummins factory distributor who gives us the best pricing along with free delivery to our door, but like you said, it ain't cheap. My Cummins rep who visits us every 2 weeks was by here a week ago with all the new info effective Jan '09. The 4BTA engines we have used & loved for years will be produced only in low volume in '09, this is going to push our cost up to over $10,000 for a new 4BTA that is equipped to our specs. for M37 & PW applications. The up & coming replacement of the 4BTA, the QSB 4.5 liter all electronic Cummins 4-cylinder will actually cost us less than the 3.9 liter 4BTA after Jan 1. Since we now know without a doubt that the 4BTA is on its way out in a speedy fashion, we are coming to the realization that we will be forced to make the change over to the QSB 4.5 engine for use as our repower engine. We have our first QSB sitting on the floor now that will be going into Doug & Kelli Crickey's M37 now underway. Since the QSB is longer & wider than the 4BTA, we are having to retool all components in our mounting system, none of the brackets used with the 4BTA even come close. Just giving it a casual look over & preliminary measure up tells me in some ways the installation will be easier & will actually eliminate some changes that the 4BTA required. Once we get our new mounting system worked out with the engine mounted in place, then we can see what the whole thing requires in other areas. I know one thing, extensive electrical wiring changes will be required because of the all electronic engine. It is a "drive by wire" set up that will have no mechanical accelerator pedal linkage, more simple mechanical design because of no linkage fabrication, not sure yet exactly how good the trade off may be. A more powerful engine; peak torque numbers rise around 15%, horsepower output goes up to 160. An interesting build for us, the challenge of all the changes, & the anticipation of an improved repower option in the end. More as we go along.