New M37 owner

[jmacqueen]

These will not work. This is the leaf count & width for a civilian power wagon. M37 has as standard 7 in the front & 11 in the rear, width is 2". Some specialty trucks went as many as 16 in the rear,(contact maintenance trucks). Personally I like 9 in the front & 13 in the rear. If you never plan to haul a load, 11 is ok in the rear.

Ok, I'm not familiar with civilian power wagon springs.. Makes more sense after hearing that.

I gave him the mfr part number for the M37 springs and the military stock numbers on the springs, I'll give him one shot at making sense of those and if he can't I'll just get a NOS set and add a couple of leaves from my current set. I was thinking newer springs may get me better more modern metallurgy in the spring steel, and save the effort of fabbing and re riveting spring clamps..

I figured out the bed mounting pads talking with John and midwest. Seems those two 3/4" thick pads I got from VPW are supposed to be 1/2" thick, he said he had to get molds made for his and VPW sells the wrong ones for an M-37. That'll let me finish off the cab and bed mounting. New weather stripping and window channel gear should be here this week.

I grabbed all the spring bushings and bolts from John, and picked up some more of the few remaining parts I need along with some new seat covers etc... Now I hope the 240volt heater I got for the garage ships here pretty quick, we went from 70f Sunday day to 33f Monday, a bit chilly out there.

Looks like I'll be going with a used 4bt, so I'll have to source one and hope for the best in the coming weeks.

[jmacqueen]

Talk to JimmieD about Eaton, they screwed up his Cummins conversion.

Hmm I read several of his posts that sounded like he liked the Eaton springs..

I let my pwa subscription lapse a couple months ago though so I don't have search functionality here any more.

[MoparNorm]

He did really like them initially, but they soon sagged and turned out to be under rated for his truck and not what he ordered.
He first noticed his steering getting harder, he then noticed his caster had changed and then noticed he was bottomed out...he can give you specifics about the lack of warranty support. I'll drop him an email.

[JimmieD]

He did really like them initially, but they soon sagged and turned out to be under rated for his truck and not what he ordered.
He first noticed his steering getting harder, he then noticed his caster had changed and then noticed he was bottomed out...he can give you specifics about the lack of warranty support. I'll drop him an email.

Mopar Norm nailed it! I gave my money in good faith. I got tech advice on the phone from Mickey there, and ordered based on his opinion. What I ordered was supposedly going to give me 250lbs of extra, over what I needed on Cummins install.

They were GREAT! For about 1 month, then steering started getting hard and progressed to undriveable. After 6 months the springs were sagged flat, front shackles resting on frame even when parked. This of course changed the axcle's caster angles causing indescribable hard steering.

Best Eaton would do is have me remove, send them back, they would "...check temper..." and re-arch, but I had to pay shipping both directions. So on top of JUNK springs for $500 original waste of money, now spend about $275-$300 more for shipping both ways and the labor to remove and install again? Then what I would get back is the same JUNK they gave me the first time, re-bent, so they would sag again in a month or two.

What I got was 100% junk! I recently had to build my own spring packs out of some used leaves to even be able to drive the truck. Eaton GARBAGE!!!

[MoparNorm]

Hmm, I guess he liked them more than I thought....= )

[JimmieD]

No, no, really, let me tell you my deep gut feelings! Just ask the Zookeeper to drop the language filter for a moment and I'll ramble a bit, but break out your fire exteinguisher first!

These JUNK GARBAGE Eaton Detroit Spring Company springs were one of 3 TOTAL GARBAGE ITEMS I used in a very complicated and difficult swap, using up the last money I had for projects.

Wouldn't be such a big deal if I could have absorbed the losses but that wasn't the case. Instead I was left dead in the water with a trashed truck after indescribable labors to get it 'just right' using supposedly top quality components. Turns out advertising talk is cheap.....

It's now just driveable and needs lots more work to fix the leftovers of the JUNK! I've been happier.....

[jmacqueen]

Ouch, after that story I'm done with them...

Springs, engine and tranny are the only things holding me up at the moment, unless I just fall back and drop the original engine back in for now but I'd rather not.

Looks like I'll order a pair of NOS front springs and add a couple leaves from my current springs I guess.

Any tips or advice on adding a couple extra leaves in the front?

[jmacqueen]

Had another thought...

What would be the downside of adding the extra capacity with some coil overs?

[Desoto61]

So what are the other options for springs or spring companies?

I'm going to need to do something with mine too eventually. Before half the truck got removed they were sagging pretty good. Plus with a cummins conversion up front and the rear springs originally being set up for wrecker duty both sets are going to need to be changed.

Anyone tried these guys? http://www.alcanspring.com

[jmacqueen]

It looks like those guys at Alcan know what they are doing.. I believe I've decided to just get a NOS set and add leaves my self though..

I don't want to take the risk getting someone else to do it I don't think, after that dealing with Eaton.

If I was dead set on having springs made, I'd probably just hit up a local truck/trailer spring shop.

I sourced a used 4bt, $2500 plus shipping. Makes me pretty nervous buying a used engine sight unseen for that price.. But I guess I'll roll the dice.

Found a guy in MN who's giving up on a bobbed 5 ton project, but he's got a spicer 3053A, flywheel housing and flywheel for a B Cummins with starter.. For about $600 all together it works for me. I just have to locate a shipper to go pick it up on a pallet.

[JimmieD]

When you get that 4BT you'll want to check the torque on the head bolts! Most of the available 4BT's are from Frito Lay or other route trucks and were re'manned around 1990 or so. The update service bulletin suggesting higher torque values on the head bolts came out AFTER these engines were factory remanufactured. You can save a lot of headaches by re-torquing right from the jump.

Good to get an adapter to check compression through the injector holes also, just to know where you're at.

On the springs it now seems to me that a good local heavy truck spring shop is the preferred way. They can build all new, or re-arch existing, or rebuild with added leaves or whatever. Being local you can get a guarantee and have recourse if there's a later problem.

BTW, lots of Ford leaves are the same width, sometimes thicker, but are slightly softer tempering. I'd still check with a local spring shop of good reputation first!

[Desoto61]

That sounds like a good idea, and with all the trucking around here there's got to be a few good shops.

As for the 4BT or , I still haven't decided how I want to proceed on that front. New/reman has it's advantages but the $$$$ is scary. Then again with some care it should be the last engine that truck would ever need.

Look forward to hearing your progress.

[jmacqueen]

Heh, well looks like I might have changed my mind again already.

Found a local spring and axle shop who will add a couple leaves to a NOS set, and make me some new longer Ubolts, for $125 a side. They've been in business since 1918 so maybe they know their stuff. I'm a transplant to Dallas from Houston so I don't know any shops up here.

I'll probably get this done the week after Christmas if I can get some NOS springs from Bizal or VPW here by then.

Engine should be in next week hopefully, as well as tranny and flywheel/housing.. things are coming together for the final push here.

I'll have to find a clutch/pressure plate for the tranny/flywheel which might be a little painful, but that should wrap up the major parts.

Still looking like I can make my self imposed Feb 30th deadline.

I'll make sure and check the compression etc, and retorque head bolts. They say 30 day warranty on the engine.. other than compression what else might I look for on the used engine? I may end up pulling the pan for mods, and check what I can there..

[Charles Talbert]

It looks like those guys at Alcan know what they are doing.. I believe I've decided to just get a NOS set and add leaves my self though..

I don't want to take the risk getting someone else to do it I don't think, after that dealing with Eaton.

If I was dead set on having springs made, I'd probably just hit up a local truck/trailer spring shop.

I sourced a used 4bt, $2500 plus shipping. Makes me pretty nervous buying a used engine sight unseen for that price.. But I guess I'll roll the dice.

Found a guy in MN who's giving up on a bobbed 5 ton project, but he's got a spicer 3053A, flywheel housing and flywheel for a B Cummins with starter.. For about $600 all together it works for me. I just have to locate a shipper to go pick it up on a pallet.

Better check out that Spicer 3053A to see if it has the upgraded 2nd gear, if it doesn't it will seize on the mainshaft the first time you hit 55MPH. We are regearing all our rebuilds now to a .69 over-drive, better fuel economy, less wear on drive train components, longer life for the whole system. Also upgrading 2nd gear to needle bearings. We build our own spring packs, been the route of the spring shop also with a bad experience.

[jmacqueen]

Better check out that Spicer 3053A to see if it has the upgraded 2nd gear, if it doesn't it will seize on the mainshaft the first time you hit 55MPH. We are regearing all our rebuilds now to a .69 over-drive, better fuel economy, less wear on drive train components, longer life for the whole system. Also upgrading 2nd gear to needle bearings. We build our own spring packs, been the route of the spring shop also with a bad experience.

Thanks for the heads up Charles.

A .69 OD sounds like a really good ratio for this setup, where do you get parts for that swap? And for the 2nd gear with needle bearings?

I know there was another model of 3053 with a higher OD, is that what your using parts from?

Also have you seen any issues with T-cases overheating with 4.89's and 55mph+ speeds? The guy a VPW said he's seen a lot of guys burn em up. I don't know if he's got something or whether folks just didn't keep lube in leaky T-cases... He said add a cooler and a pump...

Seemed to me the t-case is going to turn about 20% slower rpm's with 4.89's, so unless I was really getting up past 70mph it's not all that much more RPM's on it.

I did seals/sleeves and gaskets on my t-case, and it's all just within spec per the manual but not tight and bearings/cones look good, but he got me a little nervous about it.