Ethanol

[Gordon Maney]

I never buy it.


http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyl...pStories_msnbc

[pieter]

I never buy it.

You don't buy the story or you don't buy ethanol?

Interesting article and as many say, you shouldn't use food to make fuel...

Pieter

[BobbyMike]

We're stuck with E85 here in NYS :(

[80powerwagon]

We've got a lot of research with ethanol goin on here at k-state, they are putting a plant in Hougheton, Ks. An area with little water and not much crop to put into ethanol production. They are wanting to pull residue off the fields to supply cellulosic biomass for ethanol production while they "transition" to biofuel crops. Most farmers won't get rid of the residue since it is needed on the field and the company won't be paying much for it. The good news is we have a group working on taking some CO2 from coal power plants and using it to grow algae next to the plant to produce biodiesel. We'll see where that goes but even though its kind of outlandish it probably is more feasible than ethanol.

[Gordon Maney]

You don't buy the story or you don't buy ethanol?

Interesting article and as many say, you shouldn't use food to make fuel...

Pieter

I don't buy ethanol.

[Kevin Mienke]

My understanding is that the E85 is damaging to plastic fuel line parts. Is this a problem with the fuel or is it a problem with the fuel lines? I don’t understand the issue and that is why I raise the question. I can be neither for nor against ethanol unless I understand whether auto manufacturers are truly being cooperative in the ethanol effort.

Do auto manufacturers have an interest in producing a truly compatible car with an interest in helping farmers? Probably not.

I have used ethanol without any fuel line failures but my MPG goes down about 15%. Probably no coincidence that the fuel is 15% ethanol.

One thing seems clear to me. The production of ethanol DID help the farmer who saw an increase of about a dollar a bushel.

[BobbyMike]

It (E85) is damaging to many parts of the vehicle. It also takes more energy to produce than it releases. Couple those facts with the disturbing notion that it actually produces more harmful pollution then regular gas and you might see why some people are against it's use.

It was promoted as a "greener" fuel because of the ethanol content, but it's not greener. It also is more expensive to use because of the reduction in fuel efficiency (E85 is not cheaper to buy for the consumer).

It was supposed to also decrease our dependence on foreign oil, but because of the lower efficiency it's a net zero-sum game in that area.

If auto manufacturers are required to switch their fuel systems over to ethanol compatible ones we will pay more for our new vehicles. Add the new CAFE standards (if they use E85 as the standard fuel for the MPG tests) and we just have more of a mess.

I can see how farmers would be happier with an extra dollar per bushel, but if it ends up costing everybody else more money, increases pollution and actually decreases efficiency it's not a good deal even if it didn't cause fuel system problems (and I forgot to mention the Ethanol companies themselves are going bankrupt).

[BobbyMike]

All of this is predicated on using E85 in a regular vehicle. E85 rated vehicles are a different kettle of fish. All of the US manufacturers make E85 vehicles (and I think some of the imports). They are more expensive to produce, but people do buy them.

[Kevin Mienke]

There was a time when I was 100% behind the idea of ethanol additives so I started using it. I didn't notice a significant difference in economy or performance with my in-town driving. Later, I got a good dose of reality when we took a road trip to Tennessee. My MPG was significantly worse with the use of ethanol.

I'm glad this topic has come up because I still have the sentiment to support the farmer, but, after my road trip, I balk in my decision at the pump.

[BobbyMike]

Exactly my sentiments.

[74w300uteline]

solvent properties

ethanol is a solvent which will remove varnish&residue from your tank, but it ends up in your carb. Ethanol is so Hydrascopic that suppliers will not push it through the pipelines, its added at the last minute. who will be the next millionaire who invents an ethanol filter/separator?

[712edf]

off on another tangent

Wonder why we don't take combustable trash that is normally destined for a landfill and use it for partial fuel at a power plant?

Instead of criminals lifting weights, watching Oprah, getting full medical attention & a possible degree on my dime, have them searching for bin laden or something....What a minute, that forum's gone..

Growing fuel seems to make the supply more volatile (price) than finding it in the earth.

[rickt4498]

current ethanol $

KEVIN... today 5/20/09 reg was 2.47 a gal, E85 was 2.19 in Waterford, MI 35 miles northwest of Detroit.

[Bob Thompson]

One thing seems clear to me. The production of ethanol DID help the farmer who saw an increase of about a dollar a bushel.

I am also torn between my desire to support the U.S. Farmer and the production of non food crops on land that should be producing food for Americans. I am told the corn used to produce ethanol is not usable as animal fodder or human food. If this is correct and the majority of farmers decide to grow fuel crops, we might be able to drive to the market but there won't be anything to buy when we get there.
Our family's land trust was designed to help the small farm holder to stay on the land and make farming attractive as a profession. We are currently discussing whether or not to limit the growing of non food crops on the trust land. I want farmers to make a good living but I don't want to see people starve as a result. I am certainly glad it's not my decision alone.
Another thing to consider is the development of wheat and other grain based polymers . The changes made to these plants render them inedible . I realise these crops are a way off, but the idea is a bit chilling.

[BobbyMike]

Wonder why we don't take combustable trash that is normally destined for a landfill and use it for partial fuel at a power plant?

Instead of criminals lifting weights, watching Oprah, getting full medical attention & a possible degree on my dime, have them searching for bin laden or something....What a minute, that forum's gone..

Growing fuel seems to make the supply more volatile (price) than finding it in the earth.

There is actually a company named StarTech (here in the US even!) that is marketing a Plasma Converter that turns garbage into energy. For example, NYC spends about $90 a ton to get rid of garbage. Using StarTech's technology they would MAKE $12 a ton.

http://www.startech.net/faqs.html