Garage Heater

[DrPepper]

Furnace suggestion...

I looked for a long time for an electric furnace and found a used commercial Carrier down flow for $100. It was way more heat than I need so I disconnected 3 of the 5 heating coils and change the fan to low speed. That works out to about 35,000 btuh. Heats the garage nice. Got a Low Temp Garage T-Stat at a box store and mounted the heater on cement blocks. Blows nice warm air across the floor, what a joy.
Down side is watch your wiring, even with 230/1 it took 8 gauge wire to power it. Don't skimp on the wire it cost more for the wire than the heater. Bottom line, consider a downflow furnace.

[Matt Wilson]

Thanks, Ron and Gordon. I do get up in the attic a few times every year, and it is a steep-pitch roof, so plenty of head room. The part over the garage, not so much but the rest of the attic, yes. I was just trying to get a feel for what people do when they have so much insulation and they later decide to go into the attic to add speakers, extra lights, etc.

Thanks DrPepper. Sounds like you've got one heck of a heater. The wiring I was going to tie into is 6 gage. Should be plenty for the heater. However, I just wasn't sure if this wiring might be incompatible in other ways with the wiring of the heater. I think it should be ok, since the heater plug and wall outlet are both 2-pole, 3-conductor circuits, but I just wanted to be sure there wasn't some other reason they would not be compatible. Of course, now I may not need much of a heater after I insulate everything.

[MoparNorm]

Nice setup, Norm!

Thanks Matt!
Not mine, but my workmanship. ;)

My shop;

[Hobcobble]

Nice lift Norm. Franky has got to be loving that
truck already..... eh?
John

[JStinson]

Norm's just showing off now.

I do envy the lift quite a bit, however.

[Matt Wilson]

Geez, Norm, your shop is also no slouch! Nice-lookin' truck, too!

[MoparNorm]

Nice lift Norm. Franky has got to be loving that
truck already..... eh?
John

Shhhh! He doesn't know...;)

[MoparNorm]

Norm's just showing off now.

I do envy the lift quite a bit, however.

Thanks!
That Rotary Lift was one of 6 at a local garage that went out of business. I got it for $1,500, that model is $6,500 new.
Now I kick myself for not buying two....

[JStinson]

Electric heaters?

We don't need no stinking electric heaters.

How the JStinson clan heats the shop:

[Ron in Indiana]

We had an old coal furnace in our shop years ago that we used to burn wood. Our insurance company made us remove it due to many other claims where wood burners were involved.
As far at hoists go I bought a used 10,000 lbs Wheeltronics last year for $1000. Best money I'd spent in a long time.

[Bob Thompson]

Metal Halide, they take about 3-4 minutes and I selected them based upon the K degrees for a more natural white light, not yellow.
These are designed for hi-bays at 20' +, the ceiling is only 18 and they rock!

They still work fine, after 8 years, still the original lamps, and it once got all the way down to 65 degrees here... ;)
Actually they have seen a few mornings in the 20's but they are inside the insulated barrier so maybe only was down to 30 degrees inside. Once the infrared heaters kick in, it's toasty warm.

I find this a very interesting topic, I am going to be moving to the Carson city area within the next couple years. It does get cold up there and most of the places with shops appear to have good insulation in them. Most have a heat source as well. The most popular is the ceramic matrix infrared type.

Are those metal Halide lights the ones that are cheaper to leave on than to restart?

Still driving Old Blue? how many miles on it now.

[MoparNorm]

Are those metal Halide lights the ones that are cheaper to leave on than to restart?

If you are going to need them on, they cost about 2 hours of running time to start up, it's better to leave them on all day, unless you only plan to work for two hours.
This was once the light of choice for warehouses, retail box stores like Lowe's and Home Depot, etc. Several years ago they all received tax dollars to change over to T-5 fluorescents.
Both provide the same light and T-5's are slightly less to operate but way more dollars to buy.
I like them both, in the 6500K (daylight) range and if your ceiling is under 14'-20', the T-5's are OK.
However, DO NOT SCRIMP on the number of lights if you are over 40 and actually need to see your work area. ;)

A good rule for lighting layout is the 45 degree rule of thumb. (or 50%) If your ceiling is 20' high, your lights should be no future apart than 10' , 10' high, 5' apart, etc. etc. Assuming your lumen's are adequate for the height noted. The 50% rule prevents shadows and dark spots.
Many suppliers, like Granger, will have a watts per height chart, such as 400 watts min. for 16'-20'.
Go by the manufacturer's recommendations and don't try to scrimp on coverage and you will be fine.

Be careful when considering "energy saving lights". If you need 40 watts to illuminate an area and the "Saver" is 40 watt "equivalent" and in reality only 20 watts, you will need TWO lights to replace 1 and you will not save a penny on electricity.
So called energy savers like CFE's save energy because they put out LESS light, not because they are more efficient. I don't care what the government says. I see the results every day in my work.
T-5 and T-8 fixtures have 4 lamps where the older T-12's used only 2, so you can use half the fixtures but use the SAME amount of watts to burn them. So watch the wattage rating of the fixture.

[Blisters]

To answer the original question, the heater should be drawing just under 30 amps at full output and so connecting to the welding outlet rated for what should be 50 amps should theoretically be no problem. It would be smart to measure the voltage available at the welding outlet to be sure it is within the range required for the heater.

The typical residence in America (and Canada??) is 240 volts single-phase with a neutral connected to provide two 120 volt circuits for lighting and convenience outlets. What this means is there are what are commonly referred to as "two hots". Most items such as lamps, TV's, and other appliances use one hot and the neutral (120 volts). Some large appliances such as electric stoves, electric driers, and of course some models of welding machines use two hots (240 volts) and no neutral. A ground (green wire) must be properly connected through the plugs and receptacles to help ensure peoples' safety. This will be the third "prong" and should be the longest one.

While it doesn't matter which of the two "hot" prongs are connected to either phase, good practice is to make it consistent through all the connections.

Also, at these higher currents (amps), making the actual connections tight becomes critical; a not-so-tight connection (set screw tightened into the copper wire) will sooner than later get looser, creating a high-resistance connection which leads to a hot spot causing damage up to fire.

Lastly, the breaker at the panel for the welder is there to protect the wiring in the building, so don't expect it to trip to save your heater or heater cords.

Best,
-Ken

[Matt Wilson]

Pulling up this old thread.....

Well, I said the garage insulation would be a good winter project, and I was right. It just turned out not to be winter from 2 years ago, like I had originally planned, but rather this winter. Other priorities got ahead of this one till now, but yesterday my wife and I finally blew Atticat insulation over the garage and in the walls. We put in about R-38 in the attic, which is 13 inches, and filled the walls with as much as they would take. The system is really a pretty slick setup and makes the whole process so easy. Blowing into the holes in the walls did make quite a mess in the garage, but oh well. I'm looking forward to seeing how it performs.

I do have a question, though. In the process of blowing the insulation in, I covered any wiring that was in the path. My intention was not to do this, but instead to try to blow around the wires, or at least around any bundles of wires, leaving "valleys" so the wire would be open and not build up too much heat. However, it turned out to be difficult to do that, and everything ended up covered.

Is this enough of a concern to warrant my going back with a broom or something to uncover the wire bundles? The bundles are pretty loosely bundled with up to 10 or 12 wires each. Would the extra heat be either a short-term concern (fire or shorting out), or a longer-term concern, tending to cause the wire's own insulation to break downer over time?

What's the normal procedure when the pro's do this? I can't imagine they go to much effort to leave the wiring exposed, and if other homes any anything like mine, the wiring is EVERYWHERE and lying on top of the joists, where you can't help but to cover it with insulation.

Thanks.

[Gordon Maney]

I don't think you have any problem, assuming that your wire gauges were properly sized.