Hard to believe, but truth

[Charles Talbert]

I just read sitting on the tailgate in the Jan 2012 issue of the advertiser. More and more we are faced with these issues as time moves along. It seems virtually nobody wants to do things right anymore, so I was not at all surprised at the outcome when I read this. Most managers don't check behind their guys on the floor to see what they turn out, and believe it or not, many of the negligent employees actually get rewarded because of the little time spent on a vehicle. Little time spent means more profit for the boss, and after all they think the reason folks bring their vehicles in is because they know nothing about servicing it anyway, so in the vast majority of cases, all is considered well when really it is far from well as Gordon's inspection proved. Poorly serviced vehicles need repairs sooner, they figure you will be back for that too, more money for the boss.

While it is obvious to most who read the article that you would not want your vehicle serviced at this facility; there is another side to this as well.

We have inspected and serviced vehicles for customers in the past that appear to want service like was described in Gordon's explanation. Here we are quite obviously well versed in all areas Power Wagon to include the military version M37 and variants. We do a very thorough service job on every truck. Included is a very thorough visual inspection of everything visible. While most clients come here because of and welcome our expertise, we have a few that think we look at too much, and find potential issues they would rather not know about. We try to be honest in describing everything, such as something that needs immediate attention, (safety issues, wiring problems, issues that could cause on road failure, etc) while other issues that are obviously on the horizon, but will not hurt if let go for a while. Yes there are more out there than you would think who just want you to get it in and out, not seeing anything that will cost them a dime extra over the routine service charge. This doesn't mean you won't hear about it if they drive down the road and have a problem occur. This brings about our firm policy at M Series Rebuild, we perform a full inspection. The owner is well informed of our findings when the truck is released to them. This keeps us out of trouble, and if a customer comes back complaining about issues that went wrong that we should have seen; well we advised you of the issue and you chose not to address what we pointed out; that was your choice.

All this said, you would be surprised at the people who just don't want to hear it. Some honestly just want the oil changed using the cheapest oil and filter on the planet; and are all good with the wheels wobbling and u-joints shouting the death squeal on the way out the door.

[Gordon Maney]

It can be hard to know how to please people at times, can't it?

[Gsmith]

It's a sad situation indeed. Being as honest as the day is long, having your customers best interest in your heart, but having to do only what they want has got to be tough, especially when you feel they don't really believe what you're saying is really important. When I see vehicles stranded on the side of the road I've always wondered what happened. Was it something simple they ignored?

[Charles Talbert]

Never ceases to amaze me!

I'll give you a quick example of this type customer. Some people are nuts.

Last spring we had an M35A2 brush fire truck come in for service. This truck was owned by a municipality (small town) in the neighboring county about 45 minutes away. I noticed right away that it had a SERIOUS air leak that was coming from the under dash area. They had 2-way radios and other electrical stuff installed that looked like it was wired by Mickey Mouse; awfulest mess of wiring I've seen in some time. Huge coils of wire hanging all over the place, I was surprised wiring had not be pulled loose by driver and passengers feet.

Wiring mess aside, back to the air leak. It was so bad that the compressor running constantly couldn't build tank pressure to the 120# cut-off point. Tanks would drain in under 10 seconds after engine shut down. Looking around a bit revealed the leak was coming from the air low pressure alarm switch. A device that sounds an electrical buzzer warning of low pressure. This switch has a hole in the electrical side to let air bleed off if the switch diaphragm is blown. Obvious issue, bad diaphragm in the switch. This was a major safety hazard to the brake system. I pulled the instrument panel, worked around the horrific wiring maze, and removed the switch from the interior firewall. Disassembly proved a cracked diaphragm like I figured. I try to keep some diaphragm material on hand, so I cut a new one, installed it and reassembled the switch. Got it installed back on the truck; 2 hours labor involved. Turned the ignition on, buzzer starts to sound. It was not working before, pressure built to 80#, buzzer goes silent. Pressure builds to 120# and the governor kicks out, everything working perfectly. Letting it sit over night, the next morning there is still over 100# of pressure showing on the gauge. This is way better than average, but here is the point I'm working toward.

A few days later, I drove the truck back to the fire dept that owned it, had one of my guys follow so I'd have a ride back to the shop. Within a day or so I got the invoice together and mailed it. Next day the town administrator calls making the anouncement that they would not be paying this bill. Naturally I inquired as to why, he said you were not authorized to do this work. I said ok and explained why I fixed the leak, as it was a dangerous situation regarding brakes and that the buzzer not working to warn the driver of a low air situation could have been potentially deadly in an accident situation. Another issue was that if the truck had been pulled for a NC DOT safety inspection; they would have dead lined it on the spot for a leak a lot less serious than this one was. Most importantly, if the truck had been involed in an accident in that condition; as soon as it became known that we had just serviced the truck; we would have been liable to the extreme for letting it leave the shop in that condition. Now what do you do, risk getting sued, or risk not getting paid for fixing a huge safety issue?

Well we still have not been paid 9 months later; not only for the air leak repair, but not for the service job either. In fact we have not collected a thin dime. Personally I'm not sorry I fixed the problem, sure we would like to get paid for the service we did for them and the supplies we used, but I would rather not get a dime than to let the truck out of our shop knowing is was not safe to operate on public highways. I do know what the answer will be when they need service again however.

[JStinson]

Pitiful

No good deed goes unpunished, I suppose.

[Clint Dixon]

I hear what everyone is saying as far as catching something that is wrong and trying to help a customer by doing what is right. I am not trying to be the devil's advocate here, but there are usually two sides to the story. Personally, I have been burned by work that I did not authorize but was billed for. Maybe some of these people have had the same experience and are now very leary of someone telling them that something had to be corrected and it got added to their bill.

Personally, there are very few people I trust to touch anything on my house, my property, or my vehicles. I try to learn how to do it myself, if I don't know how to do it already. I approach every case of leaving a vehicle of mine in someone else's care as a contract. No additional labor or parts are assumed to be authorized unless I am contacted first, the particulars are discussed in detail with me, and I have made the decision to give the okay to proceed.

Where I work, this concept is referred to as a "PCO". If we expect to be paid for any changes or additions above and beyond what was agreed upon in the initial contract, the customer first signs a PCO in acceptance to the new terms. I have also worked in machine shops where I took orders directly from the customer across the counter from me, and then did the work myself to their requests. Always, nothing more, nothing less, and zero tolerance for any work less than perfect. In both cases, if the customer was belligerent, we turned them away. Same thing when I am on the customer side of the counter, if the business is belligerent, I walk out.

Now, as I have learned from experience after they ruined non-replaceable parts by not adhering to my requests, I include complete machining and assembly instructions with my drawings when I take the work to this very same machine shop where I was once employed. If they have any questions or concerns, they are to stop and call and talk it over with me before proceeding further. I am open to, and welcome hearing, any ideas they have, but they must ask before initiating any changes on their own. I inspect the work at regular intervals during the project and if there are any problems and the parts do not match the prints and/or printed instructions - the parts are scrapped, they start over, and I am not charged for the mistake.

This has built up a good solid respect between us to the point that we now do some work for each other as favors.

So, I am saying that I can see both sides of the story.

[712edf]

Charles, did you attempt to contact them before fixing the air leak? I assume (to them) it wasn't part of the std service procedure. Even if it wasn't authorized you definately should be paid for the work that they DID bring the vehicle in for.

Your good deed will not go unnoticed.

Bucky

[Blisters]

Well, I understand about the customers who don't want to hear about problems (my mom comes to mind...) but that's no excuse for dripping oil and NOTHING being inspected (battery, gear cases) and NOTHING being lubed!!

I took my wife's '87 Jeep Cherokee to the Jeep dealer to get the rear main seal replaced (I didn't feel like doing it) and they called me four hours later saying I needed a new oil pan for $150. I went to the shop and told the manager to explain why the oil pan needed replacing and he took me out to the service bay and told the mechanic to explain to me why. The mechanic ducked under the Jeep and said that the pan was dented and that's why it leaked oil. I said it wasn't dented when I looked at that morning before I brought it to the dealer! He then said it would be dented after he removed it. I asked WHY? He said it had been there so long there was no way he could remove it without damaging it.

The Jeep was on the ground in 5 minutes and I did the job the next weekend (without having to damage the pan).

If America's corporations would care about more than just the bottom line, then this crap wouldn't happen. The only resort is either do it yourself or enrich an attorney to punish the wrong-doers. Disgusting.

[JStinson]

Charles, did you attempt to contact them before fixing the air leak? I assume (to them) it wasn't part of the std service procedure. Even if it wasn't authorized you definately should be paid for the work that they DID bring the vehicle in for.

Your good deed will not go unnoticed.

Bucky

I do hate to hear stories, like Blisters' story, of mechanics making up problems to help out their bottom line. Charles' story about the air leak is a different story. It sounds like the truck was on deaths' door...or, maybe the drivers were on deaths' door because it sounds like a brake failure was all but immanent.

I read something or saw a video somewhere (it might have been Gordon's post about Jiffy Lube) that talked about dollar averages per car of Jiffy Lube mechanics or some such thing. It said that the mechanics were encouraged to get a certain minimum dollar amount per car. So, if a car comes in to have the oil changed, the mechanic tries to find, or makes up, various problems that the car really doesn't have just to increase the sale. Blisters' oil pan issue comes to mind.

There's a difference between an air leak that drains an M35 system in 10 seconds and a "I can tell by looking at this oil pan that it will be damaged if I work on it."

Sad that things are the way they are.

[Kevin Mienke]

I’m fortunate to have a little automotive shop nearby that I can count on to do any and all repairs that I can’t do myself. It’s a small family-owned business and they take pride in the work they do. They also keep their overhead low and pass the savings along to the customer. I appreciate that. I really don’t need a waiting room with leather furniture, espresso machines, and a big screen TV. I go there to get my car fixed and they understand that.

At this little shop, you actually get to talk with the guy who is doing the work. That’s a huge comfort. I believe there are little shops like it all around the country, but I suppose it can be tricky to find them. Des Moines is big enough to have a good selection of shops and yet small enough that people can easily learn through word-of-mouth which ones are good and which ones are bad. Dealerships are almost always characterized as bad, as was the case with Gordon’s scenario.

Speaking of bad, we also have an abundance of those so called service centers that Mr. Stinson mentioned; the ones that have words like “Jiffy” and “Quick” on their big bright signs. Nothing throws up a red flag like the word Jiffy. People like me don’t give a darn about jiffy, but, as Charles pointed out, that’s what some people want. Some people don’t even understand the concept of doing things right. Others understand it but want nothing to do with it because it costs more time and money.

I suspect that’s what Charles ran into with his non-payer. Being 45 minutes away, his shop surely wasn’t the most convenient choice. Someone must have recommended his work and everyone who actually drives the brush truck to the fire scene was likely in agreement that the job should be done right.

But the town administrator who stiffed him on the bill didn’t care about doing things right. He’s a jiffy guy.

[DrPepper]

Proper procedure....bean counters don't see it all...

The problem is the communication with the actual customer. It hasn't changed in 50 years and is only worse today because the layer of middle management (accountants, administrators and lawyers) that run the show. "By law" and that is the key word, an HVAC service man can shut off a broken furnace that is a safety hazard (die of CO poisioning) in mid winter. Since the brakes are a safety item mandated by the state and federal government and they are not functioning the city is responsible, they should have been notified by phone and in writing that the vehicle is not roadworthy. If they tried to take the vehicle without the repair you type (or write) up a note on letterhead stating the problem, an estimate for repair, a warning that "the vehicle is not fit for use on road and should be towed" and name the city administrator that has to decide. Depending on the state, you can't impound the vehicle but you can cover your keester.

At this point they probably won't come back for work from you but I wouldn't touch a city/county vehicle without a purchase order stating exactly what is to be done, and do no more than that. Anything noted goes thru "proper channels" for approval first.
Jokes about management are based on fact...
Sorry about the hard lesson...
DrPepper

[Chewie]

I do hate to hear stories, like Blisters' story, of mechanics making up problems to help out their bottom line. Charles' story about the air leak is a different story. It sounds like the truck was on deaths' door...or, maybe the drivers were on deaths' door because it sounds like a brake failure was all but immanent.

I read something or saw a video somewhere (it might have been Gordon's post about Jiffy Lube) that talked about dollar averages per car of Jiffy Lube mechanics or some such thing. It said that the mechanics were encouraged to get a certain minimum dollar amount per car. So, if a car comes in to have the oil changed, the mechanic tries to find, or makes up, various problems that the car really doesn't have just to increase the sale. Blisters' oil pan issue comes to mind.

There's a difference between an air leak that drains an M35 system in 10 seconds and a "I can tell by looking at this oil pan that it will be damaged if I work on it."

Sad that things are the way they are.

Know what really irritates Jiffy Lube? Bring your own oil filter and a short list of what you want them to do. When I use their services, all I want them to do is change the oil and to use the filter I brought. That's it. I get an argument at the counter sometimes, but they use it.

[Charles Talbert]

clarity

Yes we were told by 2 different dept spokesman to fix whatever issues we saw that needed attention, so in my eyes we were authorized to fix the leak.

We had done work for these folks in the past, considered them a good customer, never any issues before; however the administrator is a new gig in town, so you can figure that out as he now writes the checks. We were recommended to them by another dept years ago.

Chief has been in touch and tried to deal with the admin, no luck. Now they have an internal war going on within about this issue and many others is my understanding. Apparently the new admin is causing quite a stir.

Like someone said, a lesson learned, I was not made aware of any policy changes, and proceeded to perform the service like we always had in the past.

NOW I KNOW!

[Ron in Indiana]

Sounds like a Napoleon complex

I faced this problem in my home town several years ago. We were called out to dig up a broken water main after hours. No problem we've done it before except we hadn't been paid for the last time by the town clerk. He wanted some paperwork which amounted to didly in order to cut a check. The city crew wanted to dig up the main, I wanted it known we weren't paid the last time and had reservations about this one. In the end with the mayor and a councilman there we got it straightened out. This is small town Mayberry where everyone knows everyone else and their business. Your guy sounds like he's got a Napoleon complex trying to make a name for himself which is his eyes is good. Everyone else of course has the opposite view. I would go before the town council and state what transpired to get a resolution to this matter as you layed it out here. I would have the fire chief there also if he's on your side. No reason for this pompus little man keep your money or taint your reputation.

[Charles Talbert]

Little more involved at this point. Reading between the lines, admin has put the quietous on the guys who said do the work, so they won't admit to the chief that they said anything now. It would make you think their jobs had been threatened, but I can't prove that.

I have no problem with playing by the rules at all, it's just that nobody bothered to let us know rule changes had taken place since the last time we worked for them.

Always in the past someone called, they would bring the truck in with instructions to do this or that and to let them know if you see more. A call about the air leak, and a few other issues, we were told to address anything we saw. Business as usual; opps, NOT.