Gordon, what is the verdict about your Cummins?

[318cu.in.]

Hi Gordon, In the last issue of the PWA, you mention your truck going to the dealer for a possible problem with the ECM? Any info that you want to share with us?

[Gordon Maney]

The dealer wanted to replace the ECM, the throttle position sensor, and the camshaft position sensor. All for a total of just over $3,100.

I figured it would need an ECM, and that was $1,900 of the bill. My concern was that they were wanting to sell me everything for which the truck set a code. My admittedly limited understanding is that you can have the ECM fail and set codes for things that are not really bad. The computer is bad, how can you necessarily trust its messages?

I told them that very thing, meaning, I felt they were trying to sell me all items for which there were codes, and that I did not see that as reasonable. I authorized replacement of the ECM.

The guy phoned me later and said....

"....it seems fine."

Think of the number of people who would just pay the bill. They wanted $870 to replace the throttle position sensor. You can buy the critical internals for it; that costs about $175, and you calibrate it with a voltmeter.

My mother used to commonly use the term, highway robbery...

[712edf]

Maybe that's why they need bailouts, they have raped their customer base to death.

Heard on radio last week where the average age of automobiles currently being driven in USA is 11 yrs old, highest ever.

Working people cant afford $50,000 trucks or $3100 tune-ups.

Bucky

[MoparNorm]

Maybe that's why they need bailouts, they have raped their customer base to death.

Bucky

In fairness to Chrysler, they are not the Dealers.
Dealers are independent Franchises and by State Law, Chrysler has very little power over them.
2012 Chrysler Products are among the highest rated domestic vehicles, as reported by Consumers Report and JD Powers. Customer satisfaction with Chrysler Dealers however, places the dealerships in the bottom 5%.
That means there is a wide gulf between the quality of the vehicles and the quality of the dealerships.
Chrysler CEO, Sergio Marchionne announced a few days ago that they are going to change that perception by changing they way they do business with the offending dealers. Getting rid of poor dealerships is now one of their highest priorities.
I wish him well.

Also, in regards to the "bailout". The money given to Chrysler by the US and Canada was a loan. Because of Chrysler's precarious financial health, it was provided at very high interest rates, as high as 24%!
Based upon their miraculous turnaround, Chrysler was able to secure private loans and have paid back ALL of the loans from the US and Canadian Treasury, with interest.
Today, only GM and Ford still hold debt owed to the US government.
Chrysler has repaid in full.

[The Other Ross]

The problem is that during the purge some of the dealer that were best on parts and warranty work got the ax.At least that's what happened around here.

[Ron in Indiana]

The problem is that during the purge some of the dealer that were best on parts and warranty work got the ax.At least that's what happened around here.

I hear you on that one. We had a small dealer that was an 80 year old family owned dealership that got the axe. One of the brothers died a week after getting the news. They are still in business selling used and working on vehicles. They have the lowest shop rate and the highest standards anywhere. All the while the biggest dealer is also the crookedest anywhere. Guess where I take my vehicles?

[TommyDodge]

The problem is that during the purge some of the dealer that were best on parts and warranty work got the ax.At least that's what happened around here.

I can relate to that as well, I have a pair of friends who owned a charter Dodge Brothers dealership, meaning, they were in business from the time that John and Horace Dodge made their first car on November 14, 1914, that dealership ( Bollinger's in Lakeview Michigan) is where I bought my last new car. Chrysler also terminated another charter dealer as well, Charles Tator and Son in South Salem NY, they were in the same building for the entire 95 years that they had a Dodge franchise.
I wish Chrysler well, however the prices they are charging for their new vehicles, have priced me out of the new vehicle market.
I wish I knew who was in charge of the decision of which dealerships closed, and which stayed open, and how those decisions were reached

FYI
Oliver C Joseph in Belleville Illinois is now the oldest Dodge dealership in the world, they are only one of three Charter Dodge dealers left in the world and they are the only one left that is still owned by the original family. The guy running the dealership, is the grandson of the original owner. the other two have been sold one or more times and are no longer family owned dealerships.
In less than 3 years (November 2014) Dodge will hopefully celebrate the 100th anniversary of the first Dodge. I am hoping that they will offer a centennial edition of every model they make.

[712edf]

True Norm, Chrysler is not the dealer. But the dealer is the "representative/ambassador", at least in the eyes of the general public.

I can't readily go talk to Chrysler. But I can go see the dealer.

Bucky

[MoparNorm]

True Norm, Chrysler is not the dealer. But the dealer is the "representative/ambassador", at least in the eyes of the general public.

I can't readily go talk to Chrysler. But I can go see the dealer.

Bucky

Sadly, the average consumer, has no such distinction and to them a bad dealer means Chrysler is a bad company. It's the single biggest problem facing Chrysler as a manufacturer. They have to fix the dealer problems before they can regain market share.

As for the dealers closed during the "purge", that was horribly botched by the transition team of both Chrysler and Government. They wanted it done quickly and the primary criteria was sales volume and adherence to the Combined Brand Mantra.
The results were that many "mom and pop" dealerships, that were not in brand new buildings, or did not carry all three brands, or were below some specific sales volume number, sadly became expendable.
Chrysler lost some of their very best dealers and retained some of their very worst.
They really very nearly gutted the heart out of some communities and we lost some very loyal dealers.
It's too late now, but they have finally come to realize it, mainly because of social media and constant consumer complaints.
I lost the two closest and best dealerships near me, one fit every matrix of the dealer profile, but Chrysler did not want a dealership at his location. That was sad because it was a huge 50 acre dealership with a near new facility and great people.
The other was also a near new facility, renovated at a huge expense to it's family owned operators. It's problem was that it was only Chrysler Jeep with no room to expand to add a Dodge lineup.

Marchionne has said he wants to fix it, I wouldn't bet against him.

[Clint Dixon]

We lost our Jeep dealership and our Dodge dealership in the purge. Both were divisions of a larger nearby dealership which got to keep its Jeeps, Dodges, and Chryslers. I hated to see the Jeep dealership go as they were always very good to us. The mechanic several times showed me the special tricks on how to change a particular componant without taking half the engine compartment apart. This allowed me to do it myself and saved a lot of money. They also advised that I buy my own parts from the parts department before authorizing repairs. This way, I got the lower price on the parts verses the higher price the parts counter charged the service department.

The good news was that both dealerships continued to sell other brands they had already established. Both continued to offer full waranty service, and general service, on Dodge and Jeep products and kept their pre-owned lots full of choice Dodge and Jeep vehicles.

Just in the past week, it has been announed that Dodge and Jeep franchises are returning to these two dealerships. It must have something to do with being under the unbrella of a larger dealership and someone found the loopholes.

[The Other Ross]

Sadly, the average consumer, has no such distinction and to them a bad dealer means Chrysler is a bad company. It's the single biggest problem facing Chrysler as a manufacturer. They have to fix the dealer problems before they can regain market share.

As for the dealers closed during the "purge", that was horribly botched by the transition team of both Chrysler and Government. They wanted it done quickly and the primary criteria was sales volume and adherence to the Combined Brand Mantra.
The results were that many "mom and pop" dealerships, that were not in brand new buildings, or did not carry all three brands, or were below some specific sales volume number, sadly became expendable.
Chrysler lost some of their very best dealers and retained some of their very worst.
They really very nearly gutted the heart out of some communities and we lost some very loyal dealers.
It's too late now, but they have finally come to realize it, mainly because of social media and constant consumer complaints.
I lost the two closest and best dealerships near me, one fit every matrix of the dealer profile, but Chrysler did not want a dealership at his location. That was sad because it was a huge 50 acre dealership with a near new facility and great people.
The other was also a near new facility, renovated at a huge expense to it's family owned operators. It's problem was that it was only Chrysler Jeep with no room to expand to add a Dodge lineup.

Marchionne has said he wants to fix it, I wouldn't bet against him.

I can't see how it's going to get fixed.In this area the dealers that were left expanded rapidly to absorb the hole in the market share.My last NEW car(?) was a Honda Ridgeline.Where's the Honda dealership?Right next to my closest Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep dealer.I'm pretty well connected in the shop and I still wouldn't buy a new car from them.

[Gordon Maney]

We lost our Jeep dealership and our Dodge dealership in the purge. Both were divisions of a larger nearby dealership which got to keep its Jeeps, Dodges, and Chryslers. I hated to see the Jeep dealership go as they were always very good to us. The mechanic several times showed me the special tricks on how to change a particular componant without taking half the engine compartment apart. This allowed me to do it myself and saved a lot of money. They also advised that I buy my own parts from the parts department before authorizing repairs. This way, I got the lower price on the parts verses the higher price the parts counter charged the service department.

The good news was that both dealerships continued to sell other brands they had already established. Both continued to offer full waranty service, and general service, on Dodge and Jeep products and kept their pre-owned lots full of choice Dodge and Jeep vehicles.

Just in the past week, it has been announed that Dodge and Jeep franchises are returning to these two dealerships. It must have something to do with being under the unbrella of a larger dealership and someone found the loopholes.

Perhaps Chrysler has realized something of the error of their decision.

[MoparNorm]

I can't see how it's going to get fixed.In this area the dealers that were left expanded rapidly to absorb the hole in the market share.My last NEW car(?) was a Honda Ridgeline.Where's the Honda dealership?Right next to my closest Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep dealer.I'm pretty well connected in the shop and I still wouldn't buy a new car from them.

Those are the stories that Chrysler wants to hear about. It's too late to save the good dealerships that were closed and the jobs of the good people who were let go, when the dealerships they were working for closed.

Most of the problems are from the service side of the dealerships, but there are also dealerships with poor and misleading sales practices.
Chrysler wants to know about them all. Marchionne says he is going to fix it and I wouldn't bet against a guy who won concessions with both the militant Italian Unions and the UAW.

The Italian government, once mandated that assembly plants be kept open, regardless of the amount of business they had, Marchionne actually withdrew Fiat from the Italian National Bargaining authority agency and then proceeded to send the unions his own version of a labor contract, all but the most strident union signed up immediately. The remaining holdout had it's contract terminated and Marchionne signed labor contracts with each individual worker who wished to remain employed.

Even though State Franchise laws make it difficult for a manufacturer to exert control over a dealership, there are ways to do so. The manufacturer can limit the number of cars a dealership can receive, they can limit or eliminate manufacture to dealer incentives. They can pull product, they can terminate the contract.

This may take years, but it will happen. If your dealership participates in unethical and shady business practices, your dealership will not remain a part of the Chrysler System, it's just a matter of time.

[MoparNorm]

Perhaps Chrysler has realized something of the error of their decision.

The new management is listening.

[Gordon Maney]

Wonderful!