Me, kids and higher education

[Ron in Indiana]

I enrolled in my local community college Ivy Tech for the winter session in auto painting fundamentals class. I just finished my 4th class in a 16 week course that meets once a week. Today's lesson was on paints, finishes, primers, abrasives and related topics. We were assigned to read the chapter BEFORE class which I did. Our instructor lead us through a power point and video presentation which was very well done.

After a 3 hour lecture we had a test over the material. Before beginning he told us the high points on the test to remember. There are only six of us in this class and two were absent today. I'm the oldest of the class with the others being in their early 20's at best. I telling you this because after taking the test we exchange papers to grade. The test was T/F, multiple choice, fill in the blank and one written question. The test I graded had 7 incorrect answers and the last EASY question was blank.

What is it with kids today? Do they not listen, read or retain what is presented to them? It was almost spoon fed and they still can't retain it. Am I too old school in that I want to get the most out of my time and money spent on this class? Granted I've got the most experience over the kids in the class but even so just reading the book and following along in class anyone can pick this up or so I thought.

The instructor is a year older than myself and we've hit off very well. We even discussed the test results after class and he doesn't understand these kids either. Every class there are at least two coming in 20-30 minutes late. Last week they were warned points would be docked from their grades. Didn't seem to bother them, late again today. They won't be doing that if they get a job somewhere. I just don't understand what's in their heads. Anyone ,anyone Bueller?

[Gordon Maney]

No one has taught them there are consequences for actions, or inaction, as the case may be. Frightening, isn't it?

[Ron in Indiana]

No one has taught them there are consequences for actions, or inaction, as the case may be. Frightening, isn't it?

Frightening and sad at the same time. I'd like to like slap some sense into them but that wouldn't be politically correct now would it? That's another thing where did "politically correct" come from and why do we need it?

[Ron Rose]

I wish there was a class like that near me, I have been helping out at a small body shop near home just to pick up on some more knolege on painting and body work.

[Ron in Indiana]

Experience is the best teacher and being close to someone who knows what they are doing helps a lot. I soak up all I can read on the subject with books and videos. There are good ones out there on YouTube and commercially available. I have a set of DVD's by Kevin Tetz from the TV show TRUCKS that are very good. They are sold by Eastwood Company under the Paintucation titles. Again actually working in a shop is probably as good as going to a class if they are willing to show you how to do bodywork and painting. I've been at for 40 years as a hobby and only recently taken it up full time restoring trucks. Buy the best tools you can afford to invest in as your budget allows. Check ebay for bodytools where you can find bargins at times on old tools that are far better than the cheap new tools being put out. Good luck with your journey.

[74w300uteline]

Test

Does spelling count on the T/F part of the test?

[Kevin Mienke]

It sounds like these particular kids have no love for painting cars, which means it’s time for them to move on to something else. In order to become good at such a thing as painting, a guy needs to want it, he needs to love the craft, and he needs to have the attitude that learning more about it will be intellectually fun. If he goes to class solely for the purpose of getting a college certificate and not for the love of it, then it’ll never work. Such a person needs to find something that suits him better while he’s still young or he’ll become miserable and grumpy as he gets older. His work will be about getting a paycheck and nothing else. His unhappiness will show in the quality of his work.

But I should be quick to say that I’ve seen some really motivated kids lately too...kids that have a real vision for their future. They’ve found something that they really like and they’re pursuing it. They’re working hard at it. I think those kids are the kids who’ve given a lot of thought to choosing the right path….the path that works for them. When you think about it, many people wind up in jobs that they hate and can’t even remember how they got there.

I’ve always been careful to not over-guide my son. He needed to think about what he wanted and what it would take to get there.

[Kevin in Ohio]

Sadly it's everywhere. There has been a VERY noticeable trend in it getting worse where I work.

We have guys come into our shop that are totally clueless on how to do some really basic stuff ,comprehend prints and read/use mics. That is okay but then when they tell you they have their "degree" from the local college in machining and how they should be given top wages because of that, it gets kind of old. Some won't listen or even want to learn. The attitude is, I'm here and I should be paid because of that.

I'd say "decent" ones are about 1 in 25 now. You have to remember that the company has weeded through a lot to get those so I can only imagine what the others are like.

It seems to me a lot have been coddled to the point of ruin. Mom said I'm perfect and can do no wrong and if I fail it's not my fault.

Video games is a theme that seems to be a common denominator. Lots get off work(2nd shift) and play till 9 AM then sleep for 4 hours or less. Come in like Zombies and you can imagine how focused they are. Some of those have kids. Several get baby sitters to watch the kids so they can "get their sleep". Screwed up priorities and I really feel sorry for the next generation being raised here.

Sorry for the rant but it's SO frustrating dealing with this every day and having your hands tied.

Ron, you are a beacon of hope for your instructor and I know exactly how he feels. It is SO nice to have someone who gets it and is WILLING to learn. After a while you feel like you're in the twilight zone until someone like you comes along.

[Aaron S]

I recently had a discussion with my dad about how offensive we both find all this "politically correct" b.s. He told me that the phrase was first used in the U.S.S.R. fairly early on in the cold war era. While I have not found any historical documentation yet to back this up, I find the idea quite plausible... dad is pretty sharp. Maybe I'm paranoid, but this worries me in ways I cannot fully articulate.

[Gordon Maney]

Keep in mind, as Abraham Lincoln once said, you can't necessarily believe everything you read on the web.

Here is one link:

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/287100.html


....and another that my fit better with your father's thoughts:

http://www.academia.org/the-origins-...l-correctness/

[Gordon Maney]

One more:

Link

[Gordon Maney]

Also, I risk breaking my own rules here, so let's not get political....

[Gordon Maney]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=8cPuH8jg5nQ

Watch it through to the end, it's really good!

[Aaron S]

That IS a good video, I can relate.

[75Crew]

Technical schools and kids

I think Kevin probably has the best insight here...for a kid to really buckle down and learn, not only in technical school but any school, he needs to have a passion for the knowledge he is trying to acquire and the vision to see himself in the future as being proficient in the career he has chosen. I told each of my 4 kids that they were going to get a B.S. or B.A. college degree (I would pay for 1/2 of it) to the school of their choosing, but they needed to choose their degree in something that they had a passion for, not necessarily something they thought would get them a high paying job.

My #2 son, who just turned 27, chose to attend SIU receiving a B.S. degree in automotive engineering technology. The school offers a lot of hands-on training with many of types of vehicles (all donated by various automotive manufacturers) and Caleb, along with several of his friends, received a great education and all are holding down good-paying jobs now.

One interesting aspect of the program is that it not only concentrated on the "hands-on" aspect of the training, but being a 4-year aCcredited B.S. program, students needed to get in quite a few "book" courses, too. Two courses that he agonized over were "Automotive Fleet Management" and "Microsoft Access".

While he and his friends wanted to spend all of their time in the shop tearing down and re-building cars, the program required them to complete the various classroom courses to be able to stay enrolled in the hands-on courses. I remember discussing these courses with him while he was in school and telling him that, at some point in the future, he would be glad he stayed with the program. While it was hard for him at the time, he stuck it out and graduated with his degree, intent on working as a technician for a car dealership or other automotive service provider, never expecting to use many of his "book learning" courses.

What is ironic now is that he works for my company, overseeing quite a few electricians and managing a "fleet" of over 20,000 lighting fixtures in various automotive plants in the midwest. Every day in his job, he uses the knowledge he gained through his "book learning" and uses the skills he gained in the "hands-on" classes to maintain his own vehicles as well as my PW and other vehicles owned by various family members. He loves his job and is a great asset to our business. Sometimes kids just need more time to grow up and a firm hand of guidance/influence until that vision kicks in and they move ahead on their own.

Sadly, as Kevin and others have said, many kids don't have enough of either of those ingredients and waste a lot of their time and the time of others and get out of school with nothing to show for it but student loans and lots of foggy party memories.