On being green...

[QuantumJo]

Our Star (sun) in approximately 100 to 150 million years will go supernova, all life in our solar system will cease to exist.

Completely false

[Bob2]

Bicycles

Completely false

Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

But seriously folks, the human race needs to start doing something on cleaning up this dirty planet.

Have a wonderful day,
Bob2

[W_A_Watson_II]

The sun doesn’t have enough mass to go supernova. But once our own Sun has consumed all the hydrogen fuel in its core, it too will reach the end of its life. Astronomers estimate this to be a short few billion years from now. For a few million years, it will expand into a red giant, puffing away its outer layers. Then it’ll collapse down into a white dwarf and slowly cool down to the background temperature of the Universe.

So not Super Nova, the result is the same, as it expands out earth will get hotter.

Yes we should not pollute, but we were not created to live in caves in fear either.

[KRB64]

An organism expands to fill/consume it's environment.

Some say that that is all the human race is doing, I guess to try and justify what we're doing. Either way, the result is the same. The organism's population shrinks back to what the altered environment can sustain or it becomes extinct, along with all the other organisms affected. Then the earth "heals" and goes on.

That's it - greatly simplified, but doesn't mean it's pretty, or what we as a race want or desire as our legacy

[old red]

Old Red,

Great response! The only question I can answer is "If the world is in a oil surplus why is the US consumer still paying almost double for refined fuels?" I suspect it's because the value of our money (dollar) is woth about half what it was.

The refined fuel monopoly is driven by the federal government via the EPA. The ten EPA districts in the US force fuel to be refined per district per state. So instead of having 3 types of gasoline nation wide we have a minimum of 60 blends. None of those blends can cross into the next federal district. I think most if not all have winter and summer blends.

In Minnesota this winter our district & state basically ran out of LP gas. As this was happening the state had to get permission from the federal government to get LP gas from other districts. Meanwhile the folks were paying 4 to 6 times as much - this is what I call a regulation shortage.....

The price of oil globally is driven by the value of dollar. The value of the dollar has been driven down by all the "printing" of money such as QE1-2-3......

If you remember after Katrina how our gas prices went down below 2.00 dollars a gallon - was because GBII signed a presidential order temporarily suspending the EPA's blended fuels act & regional fuels act.

[old red]

This is so untrue.

The indisputable facts are:

-It took millions of years for the earth to turn the carbon in living organisms into the fuel we use today as coal, oil & methane gas.

-In about 200 years we have used up more than half of these resources.

-Eventually we will run out.

-Over the past 400,000 years the earths climate has closely followed the rise and fall of Co2 in the atmosphere.

-We now have more Co2 in the atmosphere than any time in the past 400,000 years.

It's all academic whether or not there is 10,000,000 3/4 & 1 ton diesels out on the roads in the US. Consuming 50% percent more resources than the same trucks less than 10 years ago. Or refined fuels in America is at least 25% less powerful today than it was before 2000. They are cherry picked snippets that address the very short term. When one looks at cause and effect over the past 400,000 years the picture becomes clear.

Using Fossil Fuel as an Energy source Is Unsustainable and Detrimental to our Survival as a Species

You should take a moment and reread your response. How is it green to be wasting so much natural resources in the name climate change/global warming? Not only are those 10,000,000,000 trucks consuming twice the resources they are running a tail pipe heat of 600 degrees. The DPF needs to run at 900+ degrees to operate efficiently & when in the regen mode they are at 1200 - 1300 degrees.

Global facts:
-The US is 1/22th of the worlds population aprox 319,000,000 out of 7,000,000,000 people.

-The more people there are the more C02 there will be - the more plants we will need to create oxygen.

-C02 does not increase the global temperatures. The globe has been cooling for the last ten years.

So from my point of view it's not the fossil fuels creating the over abundance C02.

Well back to my dilemma - do I keep running a truck that eats up twice the recourses it needs & while it is doing that it is generating a ton of heat based on a theory of C02 increases temperature when it really has not. Or should I delete it reducing the amount of waste & heat it creates directly improving the real environment that I live in while lessening the use of a finite resource?


Lastly there is nothing wrong with acknowledging the creators role in all of this. With all of our computers and all of our brains since humanity began - all that accumulated knowledge can not explain how gravity works. There is a grand design way beyond anything we can comprehend. It just humbles me when I think about it.

[Bob Thompson]

Global warming is a misnomer. a simplistic buzz-word that politicians love to spout. Even the new buzz-word "climate change" doesn't accurately describe the condition. It doesn't mean the whole planet is increasing in temperature, It means that the temp. is rising in key areas. Such as the Atlantic conveyor current. If that stops we are all in the soup. And even that is a rather simplistic explanation.

[Bob Thompson]

I was thinking about this thread last night while talking to the “Nerd Herd” this is what a group of very, very smart lads at Cal Tech call themselves. If you’ve aver seen the TV show “Big Bang Theory”
Imagine a room full of Sheldons, out-Sheldoning each other.
I go and visit with a couple of them on a regular basis. Initially I was checking on them for their parents, who didn’t have the means to travel to Ca. and see to them. These are guys who need checking on. I have no doubt saved man-kind any number of times by convincing them that a particular experiment should remain theoretical. It is a wonder to me that Cal Tech does not glow in the dark.
While they may be some of the most brilliant conceptual physicists on the planet, they are helpless with day to day operations. A simple thing like threading a needle and sewing a button on to one’s shirt is completely beyond their ken. I actually taught a group of them how to do this rather mundane task, and as with most things they had to apply physics and material science. The resulting product I discovered on my next visit was a button with nano-vessicles that will outlast the garment to which it is attached. However once applied it requires bombardment with radiation of some type to cause the bonding process to cease. They haven’t figured out how to reduce the ambient radioactivity in the finished button so that the garment can be worn.
Since they lack the standard set of social skills that would allow them to cajole the favor of mending a button from someone they tend to shy away from unreliable garment closures.
The fun part is when you get several of them in a room (preferably with several large pizzas) and listen to them discussing trending technology. While they may be guarded about their own work they will freely discuss the work of others or discoveries and developments that may affect their field.
One such discussion centered around “Graphene” which is a refined graphite substance one atom thick. It has potential applications in electronics, medicine, aviation and really a broad spectrum of scientific endeavor. Just peruse this link for some of the applications of graphene. http://www.understandingnano.com/gra...lications.html One of the most notable things to me was the capacitors that give the Tesla coupe its phenomenal acceleration will be obsolete, replaced by “Super-capacitors” of graphene composition. Many of the things that have been holding back hydrogen autos will be solved with the technology. The current level of tech has nearly exhausted its potential for innovation. Graphene is the next big thing. Predictions are first generally available products will hit the market late 2015 to mid 2016, the quantum leap, order of magnitude or however you wish to characterize it will be 2018 to 2019. The average technology wave lasts approximately 10 to 12 years; graphene may take a couple decades just to discover everything it can do. This isn’t me spouting about this tech rah rah, but the guys who think up ways to use it. It is my sincerest hope that graphene will make me wealthy.
There are serious environmental benefits related to this Tech as well. A reduced demand for rare earths and heavy metals such as Lithium, Cadmium and others, even copper would be less desirable in electronics due to the conductivity of graphene. The solar cell potential is likely to make thin film cells the norm. Desalinization of seawater is also seeing potential benefits. As you might have guessed I have not only drunk the Kool-Aid, I’m mixing another pitcher. And I haven't even mentioned the potential to parapalegics and other spinal injury victims. Click on the link and give it a read. Then do a bit of reading on your own. Now if we can keep Big Oil from killing it. By the way, something the MIT guys didn't mention was long term accumulation of retrievable gold from sea water. They're not the only one's with a grant to study graphene de-sal tech.

[QuantumJo]

-C02 does not increase the global temperatures. The globe has been cooling for the last ten years.

So from my point of view it's not the fossil fuels creating the over abundance C02.

...a theory of C02 increases temperature when it really has not.

I get a kick out of the "green" thing. The useful idiots think it is about saving the environment

The green solutions onto themselves are not sustainable as they do not create energy as efficiently as fossil fuels.

1/3rd of the energy used in the US is to power the communication super highway grid

The above quotes make it abundantly clear that you either don’t understand physics or refuse to believe fact. In any case much of what you have posted in this thread is nonsense.

Lastly there is nothing wrong with acknowledging the creators role in all of this.

There is a grand design way beyond anything we can comprehend.

The refined fuel monopoly is driven by the federal government via the EPA

This subject interests me very much because to me there is so much waste created by federal subsidies that drive "phony capitalism"

“The Back Room Pull up a five gallon bucket, sit down and visit about anything; includes Dodge & other kinds of trucks, computer stuff, and the mysteries of life. No politics or religion.”

This is a very simple rule that is very simple to follow. If this simplicity eludes you, perhaps you should stick to subjects that don’t require as much mental horsepower.

[Hobcobble]

[Yawn.......]
Religion, Politics, Global Warming....

John

[old red]

The above quotes make it abundantly clear that you either don’t understand physics or refuse to believe fact. In any case much of what you have posted in this thread is nonsense.




“The Back Room Pull up a five gallon bucket, sit down and visit about anything; includes Dodge & other kinds of trucks, computer stuff, and the mysteries of life. No politics or religion.”

This is a very simple rule that is very simple to follow. If this simplicity eludes you, perhaps you should stick to subjects that don’t require as much mental horsepower.

I find it fascinating that you are cutting me down because I do not agree with your option.

-Calling out waist by government & companies is not a political discussion.

-Acknowledging there is a creator is not a religious discussion.

-Cutting me down is not useful to this thread or debate.

I think you are very articulate and well educated and passionate all which is good.

Me - you pegged me I am for simple.

My point is simple - folks are being focused to view the big picture thru a small lens called global warming. All we have to do is follow the money and regulation and compare it to the big picture that is outside of the small lens and you will see a whole new picture. (You & I are both seeing two sides of the same waste from two different points of view!)

A very wise man told me once to always stand in somebody else's shoes first - then come to an opinion.

Simple I am inviting you to step into my shoes - So back to my dilemma - do I knowingly keep waisting a limited resource or should I delete my truck? Which is greener? What would you do?

[old red]

I was thinking about this thread last night while talking to the “Nerd Herd” this is what a group of very, very smart lads at Cal Tech call themselves. If you’ve aver seen the TV show “Big Bang Theory”
Imagine a room full of Sheldons, out-Sheldoning each other.
I go and visit with a couple of them on a regular basis. Initially I was checking on them for their parents, who didn’t have the means to travel to Ca. and see to them. These are guys who need checking on. I have no doubt saved man-kind any number of times by convincing them that a particular experiment should remain theoretical. It is a wonder to me that Cal Tech does not glow in the dark.
While they may be some of the most brilliant conceptual physicists on the planet, they are helpless with day to day operations. A simple thing like threading a needle and sewing a button on to one’s shirt is completely beyond their ken. I actually taught a group of them how to do this rather mundane task, and as with most things they had to apply physics and material science. The resulting product I discovered on my next visit was a button with nano-vessicles that will outlast the garment to which it is attached. However once applied it requires bombardment with radiation of some type to cause the bonding process to cease. They haven’t figured out how to reduce the ambient radioactivity in the finished button so that the garment can be worn.
Since they lack the standard set of social skills that would allow them to cajole the favor of mending a button from someone they tend to shy away from unreliable garment closures.
The fun part is when you get several of them in a room (preferably with several large pizzas) and listen to them discussing trending technology. While they may be guarded about their own work they will freely discuss the work of others or discoveries and developments that may affect their field.
One such discussion centered around “Graphene” which is a refined graphite substance one atom thick. It has potential applications in electronics, medicine, aviation and really a broad spectrum of scientific endeavor. Just peruse this link for some of the applications of graphene. http://www.understandingnano.com/gra...lications.html One of the most notable things to me was the capacitors that give the Tesla coupe its phenomenal acceleration will be obsolete, replaced by “Super-capacitors” of graphene composition. Many of the things that have been holding back hydrogen autos will be solved with the technology. The current level of tech has nearly exhausted its potential for innovation. Graphene is the next big thing. Predictions are first generally available products will hit the market late 2015 to mid 2016, the quantum leap, order of magnitude or however you wish to characterize it will be 2018 to 2019. The average technology wave lasts approximately 10 to 12 years; graphene may take a couple decades just to discover everything it can do. This isn’t me spouting about this tech rah rah, but the guys who think up ways to use it. It is my sincerest hope that graphene will make me wealthy.
There are serious environmental benefits related to this Tech as well. A reduced demand for rare earths and heavy metals such as Lithium, Cadmium and others, even copper would be less desirable in electronics due to the conductivity of graphene. The solar cell potential is likely to make thin film cells the norm. Desalinization of seawater is also seeing potential benefits. As you might have guessed I have not only drunk the Kool-Aid, I’m mixing another pitcher. And I haven't even mentioned the potential to parapalegics and other spinal injury victims. Click on the link and give it a read. Then do a bit of reading on your own. Now if we can keep Big Oil from killing it. By the way, something the MIT guys didn't mention was long term accumulation of retrievable gold from sea water. They're not the only one's with a grant to study graphene de-sal tech.

That has to be really fun! Lucky for us you are not diabolical! Thanks I will check out the link.

[QuantumJo]

I apologize that you felt that I was cutting you down. It was not my intention to belittle you. If my spirited jabs offended you I also apologize for that. I am sure there are plenty of things that you are knowledgeable about.

It bothers me to see inaccurate or untrue information about subjects that I am passionate about. A lot of what I posted is not opinion it is fact backed by empirical evidence.

As for your dilemma. I can’t advise you as to what to do with your truck. I don’t see it as waisting a resource as much as using a friendlier source of energy. It is up to individuals to choose wether or not to conserve the energy options that are available.

My Adventurer has a 400cid with 4.88 gears, a big cam and only gets about 8 to 10 mpg. But I don’t drive that all the time. One day I hope to get a CTD and run it on bio diesel.

As for myself, I have had solar panels mounted on my garage roof to get some of that abundant energy that the sun provides. I am also looking into wind power. A electric vehicle is also in the works. I ride a bike on short trips rather than hopping in one of our vehicles. I am slowly learning how to be an urban agrarian. Growing more of my food has an impact on how much petroleum products other people use as well as the fuel I use. I recycle most of what comes into the household and try to buy goods that are more readily recyclable. All of this may not seam like much to some people. But its accumulative affects can make a substantial difference to how much Co2 I contribute to the atmosphere, of which I have no doubt is causing the earth to retain more of the thermal energy the sun provides.

[Bob Thompson]

That has to be really fun! Lucky for us you are not diabolical! Thanks I will check out the link.

It wouldnt matter if I was diabolical. Trying to get all these guys together to work on one evil scheme would be like herding cats.

[Bob Thompson]

I apologize that you felt that I was cutting you down. It was not my intention to belittle you. If my spirited jabs offended you I also apologize for that. I am sure there are plenty of things that you are knowledgeable about.

It bothers me to see inaccurate or untrue information about subjects that I am passionate about. A lot of what I posted is not opinion it is fact backed by empirical evidence.

As for your dilemma. I can’t advise you as to what to do with your truck. I don’t see it as waisting a resource as much as using a friendlier source of energy. It is up to individuals to choose wether or not to conserve the energy options that are available.

My Adventurer has a 400cid with 4.88 gears, a big cam and only gets about 8 to 10 mpg. But I don’t drive that all the time. One day I hope to get a CTD and run it on bio diesel.

As for myself, I have had solar panels mounted on my garage roof to get some of that abundant energy that the sun provides. I am also looking into wind power. A electric vehicle is also in the works. I ride a bike on short trips rather than hopping in one of our vehicles. I am slowly learning how to be an urban agrarian. Growing more of my food has an impact on how much petroleum products other people use as well as the fuel I use. I recycle most of what comes into the household and try to buy goods that are more readily recyclable. All of this may not seam like much to some people. But its accumulative affects can make a substantial difference to how much Co2 I contribute to the atmosphere, of which I have no doubt is causing the earth to retain more of the thermal energy the sun provides.

QJ, I sent you a PM.