OT - Question on tightening head bolts

[HWooldridge]

This is basically a tractor engine question but figured this is probably a good place to ask. I have a '69 JD 2020 tractor with a diesel engine which has developed an annoying water leak into the crankcase. I overhauled it a couple years ago and used it for two seasons. After about 18 months or so, the radiator started losing water level but I never saw sludge in the oil so assumed it was seeping somewhere or maybe a bad rad cap. Over this past winter, I noticed the water leaked down and I had white sludge on the dipstick. I pulled the head and saw a couple spots on the head gasket that looked a little rusty so I replaced the gasket, reset the valves and put it all back together. It started up and ran fine so I mowed with it for a few hours. This was two weeks ago and tonite I noticed the oil was white again. The engine has never overheated while I've owned it; I don't think the head is warped and am assuming the new head gasket is leaking in the same place as before.

My question is about tightening head bolts. The owner's manual said that after replacing the head gasket, the bolts should be tightened after the engine had run for a while. "A while" is not defined and it doesn't state whether they should be tightened when the engine is warm or after it has cooled down. I figure flathead engines are similar, whether gas or diesel, and was wondering if anyone had some advice on the subject.

This leak is tiny and slow so I'm considering putting a bottle of Stop-Leak in the radiator and running it for a while to see if the copper will find and plug the offending path.

Thanks in advance, Hollis

[HWooldridge]

Reckon I'll just followup with what I did today...I drained the radiator and block then loosened up all the head bolts and reseated them to proper torque settings while the engine was cold. Refilled the radiator and ran it most of today - so far, everything is holding and no leaks. Will keep my fingers crossed.

[Desoto61]

My understanding is many of the older head gaskets would slowly deform under the pressure which effectively reduced the load on the bolts, the re-torque was to compensate for that. Newer gasket materials don't really have that issue any more, but your gaskets may or may not be made out of these newer materials.

I would let it sit for a few hours and re-torque cold. Then I would re-check after a thermal cycle. If anything would cause things to change getting it up to temp would.

If that doesn't help then checking the head, or having it checked for warping or cracking would make the most sense. Just because it's never overheated doesn't mean it can't warp. They are easy and cheap checks if the head has to come off again. Good luck.

[Charles Talbert]

This is most often not good, brings back unpleasant memories

Being pretty familiar with older John Deere equipment, I may pop your bubble. The 2010 and 2020 tractors likely were the worst John ever set on 4 tires. They came along in the early years of smaller diesels, were far from perfected, and caused John much grief. The "2010" series of small tractors were nothing but trouble from the get go, more issues than I can count, this applied especially to the diesel engine version. Gas burners had a somewhat better record. 2020's got some bugs worked out, but were still very well plagued with issues. The larger models, 3020, 4020, 5020, etc., were great machines, many still being in use today. I expect these models were some of the very best deeres ever produced as far as reliability; current production models (other than all the modern conveniences) aren't as good in many ways as those old work horses were.

Anyway, getting back to the 2020 in question, John Deere produced quite a few "lemon" machines in that era, what you have was 1 that was notorious for all sorts of problems. My experience, you may be a fortunate soul that gets to the bottom of the issue, or you may have to join the ranks of the many who just gave up, junked them, traded them, or whatever it took to get relief from the plague.

[HWooldridge]

Thanks to both of you for the responses. Charles, you might have hit the nail on the head. I had two Fords before this JD and they never gave me any trouble. This thing has been a PITA almost from day one. Might be time to cut my losses and sell the GD thing...only problem is that we are going into hay season and I need a working tractor until next fall.

[Charles Talbert]

Thanks to both of you for the responses. Charles, you might have hit the nail on the head. I had two Fords before this JD and they never gave me any trouble. This thing has been a PITA almost from day one. Might be time to cut my losses and sell the GD thing...only problem is that we are going into hay season and I need a working tractor until next fall.

Honest opinion, based on what I know of that tractor, I wouldn't sell it to my worst enemy. Since spring and hay making time is indeed upon us; I think I would be talking real soon to the dealer with which you prefer to do business about trading it in on the model of your choice. You say you need a working tractor until fall, and that 2020 will very likely not be reliable at all. When I've had to make a choice to bite the bullet or keep on fighting a virtually losing battle; biting the bullet always won out as the wiser decision. I'd much rather spend $$ on something reliable than to keep spending on something that never will be anything more than another headache.

[712edf]

My grandpa used a 1961 JD 3010 diesel for years, w/o issue. An uncle had a 4020 diesel which was the very first motorized vehicle that I ever drove.

I have heard more stories about bad transmissions/shifters than engine problems in these tractors.

Bucky

[Charles Talbert]

My grandpa used a 1961 JD 3010 diesel for years, w/o issue. An uncle had a 4020 diesel which was the very first motorized vehicle that I ever drove.

I have heard more stories about bad transmissions/shifters than engine problems in these tractors.

Bucky

Not sure exactly where you were headed with this, but in an effort to head off confusion; I'm not speaking of major issues with the models you mentioned having dealt with, only the 2010 and 2020 models had the plague. I too have heard of and experienced the shifter issues. Based on what I saw there, I can say that was mostly caused by operators who didn't understand the shifting location and pattern, it was quite different for the day, and was something to pay close attention too until you had become thoroughly familiar with it. When shifting was handled in accordance with its design, never saw issue in that area.

[712edf]

Based on what I saw there, I can say that was mostly caused by operators who didn't understand the shifting location and pattern, it was quite different for the day, and was something to pay close attention too until you had become thoroughly familiar with it. When shifting was handled in accordance with its design, never saw issue in that area.

The linkage (at least on 3010/4010) would wear causing excessive play, thus result in "jamming" because things wouldn't line up correctly. (8 forward speeds, & I believe 4 reverses).

But none of this applies to the 2020 the OP is dealing with, as they didn't have the same engine.

Just disregard my previous post, doesn't apply to situation at hand.

Bucky

[HWooldridge]

The 4000 series are great tractors - I just don't need 90 hp for small square bales. The 2020 is about 55 hp and the nice thing is the hydraulic PTO; the main clutch is a single stage and only drives the transmission - so I can easily slow down or stop in heavy windrows while the PTO continues at full speed. I have driven plenty of tractors with two stage clutches and they work fine but this setup is really convenient for hay work. I'm not fixated on this particular tractor but it has worked well enough prior to this latest problem I described above.

The biggest real problem I've seen so far is that John Deere is real proud of their parts - never saw anything so pricey. No wonder their corporate stock performs well - they make an insane profit on replacements.

[712edf]

The biggest real problem I've seen so far is that John Deere is real proud of their parts - never saw anything so pricey. No wonder their corporate stock performs well - they make an insane profit on replacements.

So is Caterpillar, which is why someone I knew used International TD series bulldozers exclusively.

Bucky