My 1949 B-1 PW Project

[maineSS]

I'd advise against powdercoating or painting the spring leaves. Powdercoating involves oven baking, and you could end up drawing the "spring" right out of the leafs. You also don't want any coating that will wear off between the leafs- they have to be kept tightly drawn together by the U-bolts, and as the coating wears off, the pack will loosen enough to result in a broken leaf or U-bolt. Oiling them is also detrimental to the steel. You can paint the outside of the spring after it's assembled, but the between the leaves it should be just steel on steel, unless you decide to use plastic liners...

[mageew]

Paint advice

I'd advise against powdercoating or painting the spring leaves. Powdercoating involves oven baking, and you could end up drawing the "spring" right out of the leafs. You also don't want any coating that will wear off between the leafs- they have to be kept tightly drawn together by the U-bolts, and as the coating wears off, the pack will loosen enough to result in a broken leaf or U-bolt. Oiling them is also detrimental to the steel. You can paint the outside of the spring after it's assembled, but the between the leaves it should be just steel on steel, unless you decide to use plastic liners...

Thanks for the advice regarding powder coating the leaf springs - that makes sense. I talked to the owner of the spring works & he's the one who suggested powder coating. They've been in business since 1915 so I figured he would know. He said they paint the springs after assembly but admitted to me that they just slap a coat of cheap paint on & said they'd probably be rusty within a year or so of use. What would you recommend at this point? I'm also trying to figure out how to treat the rest of my wheel assembly (e.g., steering knuckle flanges, drums, hubs, etc.) Should these be painted & if so, with what?

[maineSS]

My workplace had some bobbins powdercoated- wasn't impressed as it chips right off. I'd ask around about epoxy or two-part urethane. Surface prep is really important- follow the paint maker's directions exactly, you'd be surprised how many people assume coatings are all the same- they most certainly are not! Charles at M37 Rebuild might have better insight on what holds up in the real world, depending on what you plan to do, and what sort of climate you'll be seeing.

[W_A_Watson_II]

I've become no fan of Power Coating as well. Epoxy sounds like the trick. You might also consider (if you can find it) placing a thin strip is UHMW between the leafs to help them slide and flex.

[mageew]

Shop-Made Pinion Nut Tool

While I'm waiting for my new front wheel bearings & seals to arrive, I removed the carrier housing to inspect the front differential and found that my ring gear was badly pitted & rusted in places. I peeked inside the case & didn't see any rust so I'm going to stop short of a complete rebuild but I am going to replace the ring gear and thus the pinion.

I used the described technique of drilling 1/4" holes in the pinion seal & slapping it out with a slide hammer - this worked nicely. Looks like I had a Victor 49614 pinion seal which was apparently composed of a felt ring in a metal housing along with a rubber seal. I was expecting a leather seal, not sure how long this seal has been there but it seems NAPA has appropriated this part number. It's pricey but I'm trying to do all I can to avoid leaks so I've decided to go with a replacement seal kit from Charles Talbert when I put things back together.

When I got to the pinion bearing retaining nut (picture #1), I was stumped as to how to remove it - I checked my tool box & for some reason must have misplaced my "Special Tool D-1050" so I had to improvise. I took a spare 1 7/8 " socket and cut a slot to accept a piece of 1/4" plate that I cut to span the ID of the nut (picture #2, #3). Put my impact wrench on this socket and out she came! I'm not sure what others have used & I may be mocked for wasting a perfectly good socket but I was pretty pleased with the result.

[Gordon Maney]

I am curious. How did you cut the slot in the socket?

[mageew]

Socket Abuse

I am curious. How did you cut the slot in the socket?

I used a 4 1/2" cutoff wheel and I was actually a little surprised at how easily it cut the socket. I felt a little bad about cutting it but, for some reason, I had two of that size & I actually think it's still useable. I thought about making a second cut at 90 degrees to the existing one to accept another piece of metal (to make 2 more "cleats") but decided to try it with just one. The nut was pretty badly rusted in place but the torque wrench zipped it right off.

By the way, THAT (the torque wrench) was something I wish I had purchased a long time ago! My neighbor recommended that I get one when I started this project & even offered to lend me his. At the time, I thought it was overkill. I finally broke down & bought one last week to take off a mangled & rusted companion yoke nut after failing to get results with my trusty wrench & floor jack handle (e'hem, "lever"). When I think of how much easier it would have been to take off all those rusty bolts with that impact wrench I feel kinda sick!

Here's a picture of the condition of my ring gear:

[maineSS]

You can get UHMW strip in rolls from McMaster-Carr in black and white colors- I think I still have my reciept with the PN, I'll post it later if my memory is correct... Good tool improvisation!

[mageew]

UHMW Polyethylene

You can get UHMW strip in rolls from McMaster-Carr in black and white colors- I think I still have my reciept with the PN, I'll post it later if my memory is correct... Good tool improvisation!

Thanks for the recommendation - I checked out McMaster-Carr. Unfortunately, you may have just cost me my marriage as I'm pretty sure I'll be going over budget now that I know that place exists! Hmmm, maybe I'll just do like Congress & raise my debt ceiling...

I like the idea of UHMW PE in theory - seems that it would make the springs quieter and smoother - my concern, though, is similar to the point you made about powder coating:

"You also don't want any coating that will wear off between the leafs- they have to be kept tightly drawn together by the U-bolts, and as the coating wears off, the pack will loosen enough to result in a broken leaf or U-bolt."

I'm concerned it will wear/extrude from between the leaves & result in failure by the same mechanism. I really like this idea, though - definitely going to research this one.

[Doc Dave]

Magee,

Nice progress. What Maine says makes sense about between the leaves issues, particularly on a truck that will be worked hard.
With my '52, with which I completed a body off complete resto on last fall, is more of a show and Sunday driver truck that I occasionally take in the field and mountains. I did not know about the spring pack loosening when I did the resto, and what I did is the following:
Disassembeled and blasted all the leaves.
Epoxy primer followed by coat of hardened urethane on each leaf.
Reassemble the pack with thin layer of the red (water resistant) marine grease between the leaves.

Since I did this four years ago, the pack still looks brand new. No spring related issues have arisen, but again light use for most part (I did pull my CTD out of the ditch with it last winter ;) No rust, no chipping so far.

I had contacted DuPont about teflon sheets between leaves and it was too expensive direct from them, but what Maine mentioned sounds, on the surface, a lot cheaper and I presume would work in a similar way. But, others say that teflon-like material is bad between leaves because it allows excessive movement? Not sure if all this is overkill.

Here is my image event site. You will see pics of my springs as well as other parts of the resto. The guest password is shamrocksdoc
http://imageevent.com/share/powerwagonrestoration

[mageew]

UHMW Polyethylene Leaf Spring Inserts

Thanks Doc. I did a bit of research on that topic & it seems that my concerns about the material being extruded isn't a problem anyone has described. In fact, the only negative things I've read have been with regard to it being worth the trouble. The place that built my springs just slapped on some cheap paint so I've already decided that I'm going to disassemble & repaint them. At that point, adding UHMW PE strips would be pretty straight-forward. I may need some new hardware given the increased thickness of the stack. I did some calculations and it'll add just under 1/4" total thickness if I go with a .03 strip and just under 1/2" if I use .06 (seems the recommended range is somewhere between .03-.06).

The benefits, as I see it, would be smoother action between springs, less noise & protection of the paint on the leaves. In my research, I found that this material is used in modern cars to prevent squeaks & creaks between body parts. Since it seems that Power Wagons are mostly bolted together, I wonder where else this stuff could come in handy?

With respect to cost, I found a product called "Durasurf" that you can get from Crown Plastics for $85 for a 100 ft roll of 3"x.031 with adhesive backing. There's video floating around of a guy putting this on his leaf springs floating around on the internet.

Thanks for the insight & thanks for the link to your restoration photos - I showed them to my wife so she'll realize that all those hours I'm spending in the garage have a purpose! She sees me out there covered in parts cleaner with tools strewn about everywhere and I think she kinda pities me. Seeing your truck come back to life was the first time I think she began to understand & even get a little excited for me. I'll take what I can get!

Will

[maineSS]

As I recall, McMaster-Carr's UHMW rolls were 2" wide, black or white in color, and around $60 with shipping a couple years ago- prices may have changed. I had to cut them down with scissors to fit the PW 1 1/2" leaf size. Your clips will likely have to be remade to accomodate the increased pack thickness. Haven't heard of any extrusion or weardown problems, but time will have it's way with virtually any material, so you should retorque the U-bolts occasionally- especially with new springs. Forgot to bring in the Mcmaster receipt, will try to remember next time.

[mageew]

McMaster-Carr Product

As I recall, McMaster-Carr's UHMW rolls were 2" wide, black or white in color, and around $60 with shipping a couple years ago- prices may have changed. I had to cut them down with scissors to fit the PW 1 1/2" leaf size. Your clips will likely have to be remade to accomodate the increased pack thickness. Haven't heard of any extrusion or weardown problems, but time will have it's way with virtually any material, so you should retorque the U-bolts occasionally- especially with new springs. Forgot to bring in the Mcmaster receipt, will try to remember next time.

I checked out McMaster's web site - it's a little difficult to navigate but it looks like the plain-backed (non-adhesive) 2" wide UHMW PE is $86/100 ft. That's roughly the same price as the adhesive-backed Durasurf. The adhesive-backed strips from McMaster are quite a bit more expensive. I think I'm going to go with the Durasurf although I'm not sure it will make any difference. The adhesive may make assembly easier even if it doesn't last. If you run across that receipt & have the product number, I'll check it out - I may have been looking at a different product. Thanks!

[mageew]

(Lack of) Progress

I'm kind of in a holding pattern for now as I wait for the rest of my seals & bearings for the front wheel/axle rebuild to arrive. I'm also waiting for a new ring gear & pinion from VPW.

Keeping busy around the shop by painting the knuckle joint housings, drums, etc. After reading everything I could get my hands on I decided to go with Chassis Saver for these parts. I don't have the space for a proper paint spraying set-up so I had to go with something I could paint on. I've been pretty meticulous about prep so I'm hoping to avoid a bad experience like some I've read about.

My frame should be finished getting powder coated in the next day or so & when I pick it up I'm going to drop off my axle housing and differential cover to have that painted. Hopefully I'll be ready to put the whole front axle/wheels back together by the time it's painted.

Next project will be the rear wheels/axle/diff. Hopefully there will be no major surprises there. Should be a simpler project having just done the front. I expect that I'll be able to work on the leaf springs in tandem. With any luck I'll have a rolling chassis next month!

Should be posting some painted parts soon!

[maineSS]

I dug up the receipt last night- it was Delrin (which is tougher than UHMW). In 2009, I paid ~$35 for enough to do 1 spring at $1 per foot. Still forgot to bring it in- I must be demented.