Winch Repair & Rebuild

[Gordon Maney]

I figured out a simple way to ream the inside of the bushing so it would fit the drum shaft. I found on my shelf a 1 1/4" socket which had an O.D. just a bit smaller in diameter than the inner diameter of the bushing. I then took some 80 grit sticky back body shop abrasive paper which comes on a roll and stuck it around the socket pressing it down tightly.

This created an abrasive "drum" that exactly matched the bushing. It fit with almost no excess clearance in the bushing, and I was able to turn it with one hand and feel it working- taking the brass off the high spots.

After several revolutions I took it over and it fit very nicely on the drum shaft; I could turn it with one hand, but without any "slop" that I could feel.

I then used my 20 ton press and pressed it into the new bracket. A good feeling!

I will post pictures when the winch is all together.
.

Good job!

[Doc Dave]

I figured out a simple way to ream the inside of the bushing so it would fit the drum shaft. I found on my shelf a 1 1/4" socket which had an O.D. just a bit smaller in diameter than the inner diameter of the bushing. I then took some 80 grit sticky back body shop abrasive paper which comes on a roll and stuck it around the socket pressing it down tightly.

This created an abrasive "drum" that exactly matched the bushing. It fit with almost no excess clearance in the bushing, and I was able to turn it with one hand and feel it working- taking the brass off the high spots.

After several revolutions I took it over and it fit very nicely on the drum shaft; I could turn it with one hand, but without any "slop" that I could feel.

I then used my 20 ton press and pressed it into the new bracket. A good feeling!

I will post pictures when the winch is all together.
.

[Doc Dave]

I tried the brake hone, you are right, very slow. The stones are very fine and as such do not remove material fast enough. Also worried I will load them up.
I may try and figure out something like Maine showed on page 2. I wish I had a lathe right now!

[Gordon Maney]

I get PM from time to time so I wonder if Maine's is not set up yet?
Anyhow, point well taken about sharing all...
Question. Could one use a brake hone in a drill to remove material from the inside of the bushing for clearance of the shaft? I do not have a lathe yet. Also I was thinking the hone turning would help prevent taking too much material in one place?

Yes, you could, though it would be slow, but that is not all bad in such an instance. There may be some tendency of the stones to load with the bronze, also.

I should not admit this, but years ago I had a repair in place situation on a motorcycle; I fitted a new wrist pin bushing and honed it in place with a wheel cylinder hone. I did not have to remove the engine and disassemble the crankcase that way.

[Doc Dave]

I get PM from time to time so I wonder if Maine's is not set up yet?
Anyhow, point well taken about sharing all...
Question. Could one use a brake hone in a drill to remove material from the inside of the bushing for clearance of the shaft? I do not have a lathe yet. Also I was thinking the hone turning would help prevent taking too much material in one place?

[Gordon Maney]

I just did some investigating with regard to the PM [private messaging] system. It is enabled and it does work. Private Messaging is only possible for magazine subscribers and premium forum users.

I am reminded in my investigation that each user wanting to use these features must go into the UserCP [user control panel] to options, and make appropriate selections enabling private messaging and email for their user account. You two are both subscribers, so you both have these features available.

I am guessing that at least one of you is not set up correctly, not yet having made those selections.

One comment about the PM and Email systems. I discourage use of them as an alternative to posting useful information, for what amount to selfish reasons. We want to be able to read useful content, and if you only send it to the recipient of your note, then we miss that, become sad, and ultimately despondent.

Consequently, I am glad the messaging was not available to you, as it prompted you to offer this great post! Great contribution, and thank you.

All the best....
Gordon

[maineSS]

Doc-

Once again the PM function does not work, so I'll address your bushing reaming question here.

Basically, you want to measure the interior and exterior dia of the bushing as received and compare it to the exterior dia of the shaft and the interior dia of the leg housing. Take several measurements with a dial caliper and average them. You want a 2-3 thou oversize on the bushing dia as a press fit into the leg, which will show up as 2-3 thou undersize on the bushing interior dia after it's pressed in.

The interior dia of the bushing after reaming is theoretically supposed to be 1 thou larger than the shaft, this was too tight in my case, and I ended up at 2 thou over on both bushings. The safest way is to ream the bushing out after press fit with a reamer- expensive if you don't know the exact size. The manufacturer can control shaft and bushing lot sizes, you can't.

If you have confidence in your measurements, you can bore out the bushing prior to press fit by 1/2 or 2/3 the amount it's going to shrink to save reaming time. Then you have to make a tool like I did (check page 2 of the post) to sand out the remaining interior dia and sneak up on the final fit after the bushing has been pressed in. It's the most time-consuming part of the rebuild.

I used a 1/2" electric drill to turn the sanding tool, and would sand a little, measure, trial fit, sand some more till I got a free-turning shaft with no bind on both sides. Be sure you're lined up square with the bushing when you're sanding- a machinist's vice in a mill helps a lot, but I did OK freehand.

[maineSS]

If you are referring to the groove in the leg casting, that is a grease channel to allow the bushing hole to receive grease from the fitting regardless of its position- you can press the bushing in without lining it up precisely with the grease fitting. Makes life a lot easier. The "brown goop" may be dried grease.

[Gordon Maney]

That makes sense Gordon. But, the hole in the old bracket was grooved, not what I expected. Perhaps some "goop" was used because of this grooving present and get a good seal to the bushing. I think I need to take a picture.

A picture would be interesting, yes.

[Doc Dave]

That makes sense Gordon. But, the hole in the old bracket was grooved, not what I expected. Perhaps some "goop" was used because of this grooving present and get a good seal to the bushing. I think I need to take a picture.

[Gordon Maney]

Guys,
I was examining the brass bushing from the winch drum bracket that I pressed out. In places it looks like it has some sort of brown substance, like a dried lacquer, on its outside where it contacted the bracket hole.
Is there an adhesive that is normally applied to the inside of the bracket before the bushing is pressed in?
I do not know if this was tied to a previous reaming attempt, as you mention needing to ream these bushings.
I expect to receive the replacement bracket soon and want to assemble things properly.

I would say no. A part installed with an interference fit would not retain any applied substance anyway. I would make sure that bore is very clean and press it in with nothing more than a bit of oil or WD40 to help it go home.

[Doc Dave]

Guys,
I was examining the brass bushing from the winch drum bracket that I pressed out. In places it looks like it has some sort of brown substance, like a dried lacquer, on its outside where it contacted the bracket hole.
Is there an adhesive that is normally applied to the inside of the bracket before the bushing is pressed in?
I do not know if this was tied to a previous reaming attempt, as you mention needing to ream these bushings.
I expect to receive the replacement bracket soon and want to assemble things properly.

[Doc Dave]

Thanks for both of your replies.
The winch bracket (leg) is not in place, and the bushings were the original ones before I pulled the winch apart. The previous owner had started a rebuild with a new bull gear and bushings. The bull gear shaft was mated to the new bushings and the winch worked before my rebuild.
The main reason I tore it down is that I did not know the extent of this rebuild and I could tell he overloaded it at one point, due to the front angle and side bracket being bent.
Before I read your replies I pulled off the gearcase cover, and voila' the worm turned fine via the input shaft.
When I install the cover with hand tight bolts, there is no problem but if I put 25# on the bolts the shaft would bind. I measured with a ruler and indeed it appears the bull gear shaft was rubbing on the cover end.
I used the VPW supplied one and it is too thin. I will install a thicker gasket this weekend and or stack them. Hopefully that will take care of it.
BTW I had originally left the bull gear on the shaft when I disassembled the winch. I did notice though that the bull gear could move laterally on the keys either way if the shaft was struck with a bronze hammer. I was not sure how the bull gear is centered, but I guess the worm gear helps to center the bull gear, and so the main thing is to get the shaft to just clear the case cover?

[maineSS]

You should be able to turn the input shaft by hand with the same effort through each drum shaft revolution. There are several possibilities for the bind- (1) the gearcase cover is rubbing the gear (already mentioned), (2) the worm is shimmed too far forward or back, (3) the shaft bushings are too tight. New bushings must be reamed to fit the shaft, they are not a "press and play" item. They will shrink inward by the amount of the press fit, which can trip you up if you're not thinking about it.

I assume this is happening without the leg in place?

[Desoto61]

Did you set up the bronze bull gear without the worm gear in? The gaskets on the bull gear cover set the end play of the drum shaft. I'm guessing that the cover is too tight and is pinching the bull gear in the case.

You should be able to spin the drum shaft freely with no end play, I set this up first without the worm gear in then set up the worm gear using the bull gear to move the worm back and forth.

When I first put my cover on with the one supplied gasket I couldn't turn the drum shaft at all by hand. I had to add another thick gasket to get to the point where I had free rotation and no perceptible end play.

You could set up the bull, then remove it and set up the worm then re-install the bull gear.

Without taking the worm back apart you could remove the bull gear cover and basically set it up the same way as the worm gear. Testing the end play and then adjusting the gaskets until end play is gone. That should help free up the drum shaft.