Winch Repair & Rebuild

[Doc Dave]

Winch rebuild...very tight!
I am finishing up my MU2 rebuild. All I am waiting on is a used straight winch drum bracket, since mine was bent and I decided to go the replacement route rather than straighten/grind/shim the ends (although I have not ruled that out).
I put the worm gear in and carefully adjusted the gasket thicknesses so that the preload is where it is supposed to be. THen I put the shaft and bronze gear in and closed everything up.
I thought all was well, but now the pto shaft is almost impossible to turn enough to get the drum shaft to turn. I put in an 8" line up tool through the hole and it is very tight...it turns with some effort about 10-15 degrees then stops.
I set up the bearings without the bronze gear in place, was that a mistake? I see where some suggest doing it this way.
Suggestions welcome.

[Gordon Maney]

Thanks, I'll give it a try. I do similar when I'm masking off parts with aluminum foil, but after I press the shape into it I usually just cut it with a sharp razor blade.

Guess I need to look at a smaller ball-peen hammer while I'm at the store, the one I have is probably a little too large for that. Nothing like an excuse to buy new tools!

As we all know, you can never have too many tools of quality.

For some odd reason, women don't understand that. At the same time they are buried in an avalanche of shoes and purses in their closets.

[Desoto61]

Thanks, I'll give it a try. I do similar when I'm masking off parts with aluminum foil, but after I press the shape into it I usually just cut it with a sharp razor blade.

Guess I need to look at a smaller ball-peen hammer while I'm at the store, the one I have is probably a little too large for that. Nothing like an excuse to buy new tools!

[Gordon Maney]

No, can't say I've ever heard of it. Honestly other than using RTV or pre-made gaskets this is my first real foray into it. Most of it I cut out with scissors (outside) or a razor blade (inside) but the holes are too small to cut well with either.

For purposes of illustration, let's imagine a simple casting having a number of holes to accept mounting fasteners and a large hole in the center. The gasket we hope to make will be shaped just like the parting surfaces of our gasketed joint.

If your casting is small enough, or the shape allows this, clamp it in your vise. Otherwise, place it on the bench in such a way that it will sit still.

Step away from that whole scenario for a moment and let's conduct a little experiment. Cut a small piece of gasket paper — 3 in. square — and consider one bolt hole in your casting. Lay the piece of paper across a bolt hole, hold the paper still, and press on the paper with your finger in such a way that you attempt to push the paper through the hole. It will make a hole shaped impression in the paper. You will see the perimeter of the round hole in the paper.

Continue to hold that paper still. Using the pein end of your small, ball pein hammer, work around the image of the hold in the paper, striking against the paper, cutting the paper on the corner presented by the perimeter of the hole. Do this carefully on this one hole. You can't cut it through with one blow. Work around the hole. Done properly, you can then simply push the round, punched piece of paper through.

That methodology is how you will make your entire gasket; bolt holes, and inner and outer perimeter of the gasket contour.

Utilizing your new skill, place a piece of paper cut large enough to be your entire gasket over your casting. Position it as you wish, then begin with one bolt hold. Once you have that hole completed, put a bolt through it. Usually the bolts from the assembly will work, but if they are small, use larger bolts. Your goal is to hold the gasket in place.

Work your way around the casting, putting bolts in as you complete each hole. Once you have the paper held properly in place with all the bolts, then work on the inner and outer perimeter of the gasket.

You can make perfect gaskets using this method. I also think it is great fun. It is a process you can put yourself into, and at the same time produce a very nice looking gasket. Use commercial gasket paper for this, which you can buy at your full line auto parts store.

You may ruin one in your first attempt, but you can do it. The main skills required are patience and attention to detail.

I have made many gaskets this way and can usually manage to astound onlookers not familiar with the process. Many years ago I taught kids how to make crankcase gaskets for their Briggs & Stratton engines. For whatever reason it managed to be one of the most satisfying parts of their engine rebuilding experience.

You will make a gasket like that and find yourself standing there admiring it.

[Desoto61]

One other little tip I figured out last night was that a 1-1/16" Craftsman socket is the perfect size for driving in the oil seals. It's big enough to fit around the inner rubber seal and small enough to fit inside the outer metal lip.

I used a flat bearing press to start it into the housing and make sure it was square with the bore, but that would only let me go flush with the back of the opening, which left a gap between the font opening and the seal case. The socket let me go the rest of the way. A little RTV around the bore before pressing the seal in makes sure everything is liquid tight.

[Desoto61]

Are you familiar with gasket making using a small, ball pein hammer?

No, can't say I've ever heard of it. Honestly other than using RTV or pre-made gaskets this is my first real foray into it. Most of it I cut out with scissors (outside) or a razor blade (inside) but the holes are too small to cut well with either.

[Gordon Maney]

Are you familiar with gasket making using a small, ball pein hammer?

[Desoto61]

Started putting the case back together last night and needed to make some additional gaskets for the drum shaft cover. As I don't have a way to turn down a piece of bar stock (or the bar stock) to make a punch for the bolt holes. I went digging around and found out that a piece of 1/2" type M copper tubing (left over from plumbing the air system) has the right ID.

I cut a short piece and ground the edge down to make it sharp. It worked OK but the copper is too soft and the end dulls very quick. However a piece of 1/2" steel or iron pipe from the local hardware store might just do the trick. I know the big box stores sell short connector pieces for a few $, the ends are threaded but you're going to grind them off anyway.

I have to stop by the store today so I might do some experimenting in the plumbing aisle and report back. The one gasket I made was enough for my setup but it would still be worth having a better version if it works.

[Gordon Maney]

This is a really great thread.

[Doc Dave]

DeSoto,
I posted something about my winch under the 1- ton power wagon section of the forum. I would like to get your opinion if you have time.
Thanks,
Dave

[Desoto61]

I've started putting my winch back together and ran into the issue of pressing the new bearings onto the worm shaft. Since I didn't have any extra spacers I had to find an alternative.

What I ended up doing was taking one of the old bearings and removing the cage and rollers. Then cut the inner race in two and ground down all the sharp inner edges. I also ground off part of the top lip so that it fit inside the cage of the new bearing better.

The shape of the inner race gave me a nice wide bottom to go against the base plate to press against. I had to press against the plate first and then re-position to press through the opening in the plates, otherwise the bearing wouldn't go on straight and would start moving the shaft instead of the bearing.

[Charles Talbert]

Royal Purple Industrial product suppliers

You will need to locate a Royal Purple Industrial lubricant dealer for many of their products, such as worm gear lube. Automotive suppliers won't carry that. Ours down here is Atlan-Tec, they cover both North and South Carolina, prices to us are much better than over the counter like NAPA, Car Quest, Advance, etc.

[Desoto61]

Advanced Auto seems to have a limited selection of their stuff. Mostly just the normal oil grades and ATF with maybe some gear lube but might be able to get more.

Summit Racing caries most of their line, not sure if the price is any better than a local dealer but was easier for me to get. I ordered lubricant for both my transfer case and my differentials from them. Not cheap but everything I had looked at seemed to back up their claims.

[maineSS]

I've heard good things about their product also- seems to be available only thru dealers up here. Heat is usually a problem in continuous use (unless you live in Death Valley), most people normally are making occasional pulls. I think synthetics are the best way to go here, well worth the effort of changing out worn seals and worm shafts.

[Charles Talbert]

Charles- excellent point about yesterday's lubricants- like yesterday's gasoline, they're just not made anymore, you'll need a Time Machine to find them. Even if you did find them, there's much better available if you know how to look.

I suspect a lot of winch users are looking for an oil that doesn't cost too much, won't eat bronze gears like many auto store GL 5 oils will, and will cover a wide temp range. Their winch leaks a lot because of worn seals/worm shaft, and they need frequent refills. The closest possibilty I've been able to find is an 85-140 Super Tech semi-synthetic marketed by Wal Mart. It's made by Lubrizol. The engineer there said he didn't see any corrosion or lubrication problems other than the life of the viscosity modifier- which is why he couldn't fully endorse it for this use. If you're going thru frequent oil changes, viscosity modifier breakdown shouldn't be a problem, but everyone's winch use is unique, so this is very much a case of the the user being aware and watching his winch. If I come across something better that's widely available, I'll post it.

I don't know if you found this info or not, you may have already covered it.

I found out after talking to tech rep's at Royal Purple that they offer worm gear lube in both non-synthetic and synthetic products. The synthetic was quite a bit higher priced of course. His analysis was if high heat conditions were not an issue, the non-synthetic product should perform great. He felt their synthetic products would perform much better if heat was an issue, I can certainly agree with that point as we have already seen in components where heat was an issue become non issues just by changing to Royal Purple lube. It isn't uncommon for Royal Purple synthetic oil to lower operating temps by 20 degrees and more in some cases. Royal Purple is a great line of products.