46 Power Wagon Restoration pt. 2

[Desoto61]

I also have a hard time trusting those strap retainers, the bolts just seem so weeny. I much prefer the original style slide-on straps. Red Locktite is a good idea, but I almost want to tack weld the bolts in place.

The 1350 yoke on the transmission has big ears that come up way past centerline of the u-joint caps, so there's plenty of strength there, so I get that the strap only really holds the cap into the yoke, but I've lost a u-joint over bolts like that.

I'm not honestly sure if the Detroit ends are any stronger as the sides are thinner even with the slide-on cover, and then the through hole in the base of the tower which also introduces some weakness, but the through bolt in double shear with the tabbed lock washers pretty much ensures that bolt is never coming loose!

Only downside is the factory bolts have a very long shank and just enough threads for the nut, while an aftermarket bolt will be generic and have longer threaded portion, which is not quite as strong, but probably not a major issue with some grade 8 bolts.

[Greg Coffin]

I am always amused at the military nature of some of these parts. The 1350 yoke is beefy, but held on by four bolts (and a little red locklight), while the Detroit end uses those keyed covers with through bolts and lock tab washers, to which I added top-lock nuts for some extra insurance

I also have a hard time trusting those strap retainers, the bolts just seem so weeny. I much prefer the original style slide-on straps. Red Locktite is a good idea, but I almost want to tack weld the bolts in place.

[wayneh]

Good luck on the hood.... I guess I'm not much of a sheet metal guy because mine still fits quite poorly. If you get it figured out, please let me know and maybe I can learn from you!

Wayne

[Desoto61]

I ended up ordering a replacement yoke for my transfer case. Apparently the one I had is for the earlier trucks that used the larger 5380 yoke as an output, vs the smaller 5160. VPW sent me a practically new WC yoke that has the smaller U-joint size. After cleaning it up and painting it I could install it, and then realize the bolts were installed backwards and wouldn't let the u-joint lock bolts fit and had to reverse them all.

That only left the front intermediate shaft. The shop was trying to save the splined end of the original shaft but there was no 1350 sized female end that matched the spline size of the original shaft. So he ended up ordering a whole new shaft. Good news is it's bigger around and should be stronger, but those splined ends are not cheap. To go to the larger 5380 series U-joint I used one of the conversion joints I bought to go from a 1410 series Spicer to the Detroit 5380. In the end the shaft collapses to about 6 1/8" and expands to a little over 6 3/4", which was just long enough to fit.

I am always amused at the military nature of some of these parts. The 1350 yoke is beefy, but held on by four bolts (and a little red locklight), while the Detroit end uses those keyed covers with through bolts and lock tab washers, to which I added top-lock nuts for some extra insurance.

I tested that setup just to see that it moved, and then with the engine to make sure nothing horrible happened, and all seems fine with it. Then I could install at least the rear driveshaft and see how that all worked, that meant getting the truck up in the air, which is handy when you have a lift, though the narrow nature of the frame still make it a little wobbly.

Accidentally started in third which was a little rough, but got it into first and all seemed to go OK. Ironicaly I didn't notice the other tire wasn't turning as much till I watched that video, as the tire on the driver's side was moving well.

I still need to figure out the clutch, it works but is way too stiff for regular use. I need to see if I can maybe adapt the Chevy master for that transmission to the Ugly Truckling peddle kit or if there is a smaller bore master with the older bolt pattern. Also need to build a shift lever since the stock one points at my knee with the trans tilted like it is.

Today I worked on installing the hood. Not too bad, but I am going to have to play with the fitment some more. Right now it looks like the radiator has to go higher, which would mean re-re-working the mounting bolts and building a few more spacers, but I'll play with it later.

[defdes]

Seats may still need to be lowered a little, but I think I'll wait till I actually drive it to see, to drop them any lower would require some more significant modifications to the seat base. The second picture would be just about right I think, as it is I'm probably another inch or two higher.

I am in the same boat, I thought I had my seat position dialed in, but after driving it for a couple of months realize it needs to be about 1-2" lower.
Looking real good there, you must be getting (gotten) excited.

[Desoto61]

Last big task for the weekend was to clean out the cab and install the seat base. I also used some of the LED light strips across the bottom of the frame tied to the parking lights, it will provide some interior lighting at night. Then I could bolt it in place and set the driver's seat in place again for the first time in a while.

Felt good to be able to sit in the seat and actually start the truck up for the first time ever! It's a long climb up without the running boards though. Seats may still need to be lowered a little, but I think I'll wait till I actually drive it to see, to drop them any lower would require some more significant modifications to the seat base. The second picture would be just about right I think, as it is I'm probably another inch or two higher.

[Desoto61]

Think I managed to fix the leak from the power steering box. Turns out the AGR boxes don't use a traditional seal setup. They use a machined sleeve with a needle bearing and o-ring. The o-ring had a tear in it, swapped in a new one and so far so good. The plus side was I could actually get the box out with the engine in place, it's a little tricky but not too bad.

Worked on running the vent ducts through the dash to the dash and defroster ducts. Had to put the mock up radio in place to make sure they were all routed correctly. They take up a lot of space but can be squeezed into tighter spaces, especially behind the glove box. We'll see how that holds up. Zip ties secure the ends in place.

Then I could install the glove box. Installed riv-nuts through the top mounting holes, some #8 fasteners hold it in while I get the bottom set up. Ended up using another of the magnets as a handle to remove the side panel. Works pretty well and the access is decent thought the duct on that side blocks access from below, but it's not too hard to remove and re-install the duct.

I also added some LED strip lights to the underside of the glove box and steering column support and tied them into the dome lights for some down lighting in the foot wells. Also need to rig up some sort of switch for a glove-box light.

[Desoto61]

Ironically the transfer case ends aren't the problem. The conversion yoke allows you to go from the Detroit 5380 to the Spicer 1410 (which actually has smaller end caps with outside locks vice the Detroit's inside clips, but the width is about the same). The problem they have is the small side that attaches to the differentials (Detroit 5160). They have the same big 1.232" end caps as the 5380, but are only 2.5" wide (vs 3.5" wide). Nothing converts to them that I can find, and the shop doesn't have any way of mounting those shafts in their machine to balance or weld up.

They looked at using a new t-case end for the driveshaft but the spline size and count doesn't mate up with anything that would come with a 1410 series joint in it, and they can't weld something up because they can't mount the shaft in their machine. They were going to talk to another shop that does their shafts in a big lathe. They can't balance, but could potentially weld on a new end.

They can get a Detroit fixture but there's nothing in it for them to do so for one job. They have a fixture that is about the right width but the end cap diameter is 1.125". I need to look and see if I can get a set of end caps turned down to the smaller size for build/balance, then just swap them for the stock caps for installation.

[Bruce in BC]

transfer case woes

I gather you are using the original transfer case. It almost makes sense to go to a NP205. Is there a way to machine the yokes to take a larger and more common universal joint, like the 1410?
The other thing to consider is having a custom output machined. Tom's make output flanges, they have different spline counts. You might be able to get one with the NP200 or NP201 spline count.

[Desoto61]

I noticed that. I have images of all sorts of stuff rattling lose. I would love to get my hands on one of these and seriously balance the internals and see what difference it would make. Being an industrial engine it might make a great difference but with the firing order it might make no difference at all. congratulations on firing it up. Next you get to move it a few feet.

Bruce

Oh good, it's not just mine! It smooth's out with a little more RPM, but is pretty pronounced at idle, though I haven't checked the idle speed yet, need to figure out a way to do that.

I imagine softer mounts would help but then I'd get more motor movement which would be a separate issue, the MC is still pretty close to the intake elbow.

I'm guessing balance wouldn't hurt but that it's more about the firing order, otherwise Cummins wouldn't have built that balance shaft assembly they offered for them. Can't imagine that was cheaper than just doing a better balance of the motor.

Problem there is, besides being crazy expensive when they do show up, the look to bolt between the block and pan, making an already tall motor even taller. I think it will be interesting to see how Alex's common rail will be. Sure the displacement is different but wondering if being able to tweak the injector firing can calm it down any.

As for movement, still working on that. Have a plan for the intermediate shaft with the conversion U-joints. Still need to figure out what to do with the rear driveshaft. Either have to see about replacing the t-case end of mine with the larger Detroit or a 1410 with the conversion joint to match my output yoke, or trying to find a later 6x6 output yoke so I can just bolt the existing rear shaft in place.

[Bruce in BC]

Vibration at idle

I noticed that. I have images of all sorts of stuff rattling lose. I would love to get my hands on one of these and seriously balance the internals and see what difference it would make. Being an industrial engine it might make a great difference but with the firing order it might make no difference at all. congratulations on firing it up. Next you get to move it a few feet.

Bruce

[cj7and8]

Congratulations!! That is very exciting! Looking forward to seeing it move under it's own power next!

[Desoto61]

It's alive!

Spend the last few days adding fluids and checking things over in preparation for trying to fire up the engine. Installed the gauges temporarily so I had some idea what was going on if I got it running.

Very excited but also very nervous, things can go wrong very quickly. After bleeding the fuel lines and charging up a battery I cranked it over to try and get some oil pressure with the fuel solenoid disconnected. I think the battery I used is going bad as it struggled, but after a few times I reconnected the solenoid and gave it a go.

Good news is it runs! Bad news was I plumbed the power steering box backwards, and had some weird issues and spilled fluid everywhere while I tried to correct it. I have it fixed but still have a leak at the power steering box, it works but is leaking around the output shaft, so I'll have to either try and re-seal it or replace it. Box seems to work well otherwise.

It vibrates a lot at idle, though does smooth out with a few more RPMs. Gauges are nice and seem to work well, though I have yet to get everything set up. I'll have to figure out how to determine engine speed so I can calibrate the tachometer, and there's some extra resistance in the fuel tank sender so it will have to be calibrated manually vice using the sending unit values.

Regardless after many years and countless hours it runs! Now to try and make it move!

[Desoto61]

When I bought my wiring harness Painless was running a deal where they threw in one of their braided loom kits, so I've been slowly working on covering all the wires outside the cab. The small stuff is very finnicky to install, the larger stuff is easier but not by much. I did order the little tools to install it though it's only for some of the larger sizes but it works very well where you have a long enough run. Regardless it looks nice and does a great job of controlling and protecting the wires.

Managed to track down a few gremlins and seem to have most of the wiring stuff locked down, at least the parts installed. There are still plenty of wires to connect but most of the connected stuff seems to be working.

Not a ton of space for an air cleaner, this one fits well but still tight. Might be able to snake some tubing around to a different location but I'll try it here first. Plan on trying to make a heat shield to hang off the bolt on top to protect from the exhaust manifold heat.

[Desoto61]

Talked to the driveshaft shop this morning about the conversion u-joints for the transfer case ends of the intermediate and rear driveshaft. I couldn't find the Detroit yokes any more, so they'll probably have to install a Spicer 1410 unit on both shafts and I'll use the conversion joints to mate to the transfer case yokes. That should also allow them to be balanced, just have to swap out the 1410 joint for the conversion joint before putting it on the truck.

The remaining problem is the smaller Detroit 5160 ends. There is no conversion joints that I could find, but the big issue they have is that the Detroit joints use a 1.232" cap diameter, which seems to be unique, so they don't have anything that takes that size, it's either too big or too small. The Spicer ends are 1.188" diameter. So what I may need to do is get another joint and have two of the end caps turned down to 1.188" that can be swapped in for balancing and then swapped back for installation. They may still have to shim the unit for width in the machine but they seem to think that won't be a big deal. For balancing the reduced material shouldn't be an issue.