Bearings and races inside differential for a 1950 Power Wagon

[Karl Kostman]

Hello folks
As the heading states I am working on the diffs on a 50 Power Wagon and pulled a differential apart this morning checking bearing and races and found a couple pitted races and bearings the one that I have a question on is a DOUBLE race double bearing setup the race number is 44363-D and the bearing numbers are 44143 everything is Timken but my real question is finding a source for the double race for these bearings? The race is also drilled between the bearings to facilitate oil flow between the bearings. Any ideas guys on where to source these parts would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks much
Karl

[CRudolph]

KArl:

Try Vintage Power Wagon or DC Truck Part. About to ter down my diffs on '63 FFPW. How difficult is this project?

Thanks,
Craig

[Karl Kostman]

Hello Craig thanks much for your response to my post! Taking the diff apart was not a big deal, first make sure your pinion nut is loose then take the locks off the top of the main hold downs for the diff, remove the 4 main nuts then unscrew the big inside nutts on each side, they are the ones that intersect with the locks you took out earlier. Take a brass hammer and tap the sides of the mains and pull the caps off, then you can lift the entire diff assembly out of the housing. Then take the pinion nutt and driveshaft connect point off the shaft and the entire pinion assembly comes out. The pinion seal can be kind of a bugger, I drilled a hole in mine and screwed a big screw into the seal and used a slide hammer to remove it, easy at that point. In washing off bearings and wiping off races I noticed some pitting on at least 2 but not all, I removed all the races from the housing and cleaned all the parts for further inspection, half the bearings and races were pitted and will be replaced. When you get going on yours if you find you need parts let me know, a buddy of mine found everything including the pinion seal for substantially less than half of what others were selling them for, I will forward that info to you if you need it. My next move is to take the diff apart to inspect the spider gears inside, that will be a little of some new stuff because I need to drill out the 3 steel dowels that hold the cap on it? It will get done Craig. If I run into any trouble I will let you know before you tie into that part.
Good luck and hope this helps you Craig!
Karl

[CRudolph]

Thanks Carl. I just opened up my rear diff. Everything went pretty easy. I got the 2 side bearing on and the large pinion bearing on. Now trying to find/make a tool to remove ( don’t know what it’s really called) but the nut inside the diff that holds the double race. Need a tool that has 4 outer fangs to set in the nut. At such an angle can’t get a punch in there.

If your looking for a number for Dave Cirillo at DC truck parts mobile 541-941-3162. Office/shop 541-772-8992.

Thanks Craig

[Tom Petroff]

Dave @DC truck parts offers a complete bearing kit for most every gear box including Diff's.
He was or still is the most reasonable.
That double race is getting hard to find.

I think vintage still has some but not sure.

All I have is Dave's ebay store link where he sells his parts.
He does have a email but I don't have it handy at the Moment.

https://www.ebay.com/str/dctruckparts

Tom

[Karl Kostman]

Thanks Tom for the info its always good to have a few options!
Karl

[Cheyenne Dave]

Karl, in reference to the disassembly of the 3rd member case:

The three fluted dowel pins you refer to should not be drilled out. Rather, they can be driven out from the bearing-hub side of the cap. If you keep a collection of small ball-bearings, select several of a slightly smaller diameter than the dowel pins.

First, make index marks in the cap and case near one of the dowel pins. These are for reassembly alignment. Then, using an appropriate drift and one ball bearing at a time, stacked one atop another, the pins can be driven out of the case from the inside out, with no damage to the pin bore. Discard the old dowel pins.

Once the 3 pins are removed the case must be heated to allow the cap to be unscrewed. In addition to threads, the cap has an interference fit with the case, much like a ring gear on a flywheel. You will know when the case is hot enough when solder will melt on the side. Concentrate on heating the case at the seam with the cap rather than the cap itself, being careful not to concentrate the flame in any one place.

Reassembly is much easier and faster as the case will heat faster without the cap's thermal mass. Tighten the cap until you line it up with your index mark and the 3 dowel holes and install 3 new fluted dowel pins.

CD

Good luck!

[Karl Kostman]

Dave thanks much for the info! I did things by the Dodge service manual but think your idea is better, of course AFTER the fact! I drilled the pins and that went fine pins came out with no damage to the case or cap. After that I made a tool that had 3 7/16 pins to go into the cap to unscrew it once I got it heated up. After heating it tried unscrewing the cap and the biggest thing I had working against me was not having a real effective way to hold center section I could hold it decent but not good enough. After some thinking I put one of the centers in my solvent tank and ran solvent through the spiders while turning them and a fair bit of old grease did come out and the gears smoothed out and became a lot smoother after this, so with that in mind tomorrow I am taking both centers to a machine shop with a big solvent tank with a shelf that moves up and down in the heated solvent, way better flow than I can get out of my wash tank. I re pinned the cap I had drilled the dowels out of and decided to go the flushing route instead of removing the cap, I had BAd visions of working on it till I wrecked something Dave the flushing then inspection then if all looks good and operated smoothly then all new bearing and races and reassembly. Dave if you see problems doing it this way please let me know if my thinking is flawed? Thanks again!
Karl

[Cheyenne Dave]

Karl

I am a bit obsessive about total disassembly. There are fiber washers behind the side gears and it is very hard to evaluate those, as well as cross pin and gear bore wear without a complete tear down. Its a lot of work to go as deep as you have and not go all the way.

I wound up making my own service armature to safely and securely hold the case for this type of work. Its handy for ring gear torquing as well.

I could post some pix of mine but like most special tools, it is unique to the materials I had around in my shop. It didnt take more than an hour or so to make and now I have the tool. I'm sure you could come up with with something that would fit the bill.

Hope this helps.

CD

[Karl Kostman]

Thanks much Dave and I do agree!

[Karl Kostman]

Hey guys I need a little source assist on bearings. I tried vintage Power Wagons and they are back ordered for weeks on all the bearing and races inside the differential housing. Upon disassembly half of my bearing and races were pitted so I am going to replace them all front and rear, do you folks know where I can buy these in a kit form to include all the bearings and races I need for both diffs? I will call DC truck parts in the morning but would like to have at least a couple other options in case they cannot help me? Thanks much guys!
Karl

[Desoto61]

Those are really the only two sources for a "kit" that I know of any more. That bearing was expensive and hard to get when I was rebuilding my differentials almost 10 years ago. That's why I used a new one in my rear differential but re-used the best of the pair for my front axle.
Otherwise your best bet is to try and track down the individual bearings and races yourself through "normal" means (bearing shops, e-bay, google part # search, etc.). If the double race is being made again it's because someone like VPW is ordering enough to get someone to make them as last I heard they were discontinued by the main manufacturers, which means we're all scrambling after NOS.

[Karl Kostman]

Hey Tom Petroff I have sent Dave 2 emails asking availability for the bearings I am looking for do you by any chance have a phone # for this fellow so I can talk to him directly and order what I need hopefully?

Thanks Tom!
Karl

[Karl Kostman]

Hey Craig Good to hear your good progress is coming along, on that piece your talking about to make the special tool for I got mine off with a punch/chisel with minimal damage, its more just the need to break it lose and they come out good after that but I will also be making a tool for putting mine back together. Yesterday I was looking very hard at my ring and pinions was working on them with a wire wheel to remove and rust and unfortunately my feelings are the pitting in them is just to deep I know I am past the hardened steel level and getting into the normal/soft steel I am putting in all new bearings/races and the last thing I want to do is start having lots of metal filings screwing up all my new bearings so unfortunately I felt I had to order two complete ring and pinion sets for the truck, stayed with the same 4,89 gear ratio. I have been communicating with DC truck parts and should hopefully have some info back from him soon on the delivery time for the bearing kits for both my diffs then I can actually start putting something together for a change instead of just taking apart that will sure be nice Craig! Thanks for keeping me posted on your progress and I will do the same when I actually start making some more FORWARD PROGRESS!
Take care
Karl

[CRudolph]

Hi Karl,

Working with a friend to get the ring out without destroying it. I am actually going back with 4.30 gears. Dave. DC is a good guy with tons of knowledge, like the guys a Vintage Power Wagon. Once I get the ring out I can install the races and put it back together. Any words of wisdom on making sure this is done right and adjusted properly?

Then I can move on to the front diff. I’ve taken some pics and will hopefully get some posted soon from when it was together and now down to bare frame. Just got frame back from powder coating. I probably should have thought about the power steering before the coating I’m thinking of heating and bending frame as suggested by Greg Coffin. I also obtained an under mount brake booster from Greg so I can keep the original pedals.

Take care
Craig

[Tom Petroff]

Hey Tom Petroff I have sent Dave 2 emails asking availability for the bearings I am looking for do you by any chance have a phone # for this fellow so I can talk to him directly and order what I need hopefully?

Thanks Tom!
Karl

Sorry to just see this Karl

All I have is his eBay store link which I posted earlier, But I did find his web page, No phone but e-mail link.
Did you try through eBay or his web page?

I never had any problem buying from his eBay store or contacting him from there.

Web Page http://www.jobrated.com/index.html

Also forgot to mention Bob Stahl in MA.
He's very knowledgeable and rebuilt many of these Diff's and I bought
Many parts from him in the past.

Veteran Vehicles, https://www.veteranvehicles.com/

Bob Stahl, 215 Everett Street Wrentham, MA 02093 (508)384-7698

Tom