Opinions Wanted

[MoparNorm]

With the taller chrome at the top middle of the grill it needs to have a shape carried down to make it look right. With both options shown, it looks like a bad grill gob on a truck that had a different shaped front end.

I think that comes from the too large Ram bumper. The bumper needs a little Jeep touch....= )

[Clint Dixon]

I agree

I think that comes from the too large Ram bumper. The bumper needs a little Jeep touch....= )

Chop off the whole bumper 2-inches below the fog lights. No Jeep ever made needed a stinkin' air dam anyway. ;^)

The horizontal grill looks better. I like old style headlights, but would like to see them round. Once you get into rectangular headlights, you are no longer vintage.

[greg rider]

If Chrysler is set on using a current platform then they should also consider the Dakota. I think that the fullsize is too much. You can get decent towing with the Dakota chassis but I think people who are looking for a larger tow rig aren't going to think Jeep as a player in that market. The entire Jeep line through history has been multi-use utility, not 4WD crew-cab cloning of a suburbanite toy hauler. I think they are grasping at nonexistant straws and looking for a market that doesn't exist. What happened to the proposed WDX looking Power Wagon based on the Dakota? This whole thing just rubs me wrong and I think it comes from seeing the Dodge/Mercedes/Freightliner Sprinter on the road. It should look like a Jeep and not a Ram with a custom grill. My grandfather had a 70's Wagoneer and the J trucks were based on that sheetmetal. Why couldn't they go with Grand Cherokee platform and front clip? There are alternatives.

[318cu.in.]

Battle will be fought on price, not design alone

Hi MoparNorm, First of all, thanks for sharing this interesting model and providing an opportunity to comment. Jeep-like indeed, very Jeep-like, with a raised hood reminescent of the Gladiator pickup. Nice grill too. As mentioned by another blogger, I would definitely go for round headlights and 4 cyl. diesel. Now if some of these measures contribute to a decrease in price, I’d say “go for it” to your correspondent at Chrysler. There’s a definite trend in downsizing worldwide, not only in vehicle dimensions but in prices. India’s Tata Motors has launched the Nano which sells for $2,300 CND. The Chinese are also working on the crash tests of a car that will sell roughly for $6,000 CND from what I hear. And in Europe, there’s a car produced in Central Europe that sells, with improvements to bring it up to certain European standards, for €5,000 EUR. Guess what: the low costs trucks are certainly not far behind (Tata just launched a new range of world standard trucks). Heck, even our own governments are pushing for more stringent fuel economy (read smaller vehicles).

I agree with the correspondent in this blog who implied the battle won’t be won on design alone. I suggest going for existing components as much as possible and also tending an ear towards the younger generation.

While I'm at it, can I make a wish? I know I'm digressing here, but can someone bring back the underbed tool boxes that were available on Dodge pickups in 1974? And would it be too much to ask for an aftermarket that would fit existing vehicles?

[TommyDodge]

I really like the version that is pictured in post 27 of this thread. I would buy one of those if it had a diesel and a stick shift. I am not interested in any truck that does not have a stick shift. I don't care for the looks of the new Ram and mind you I have only bought Dodge before. I do like the new power wagon but know I can't afford one.
DB69

[MoparNorm]

If Chrysler is set on using a current platform then they should also consider the Dakota. I think that the fullsize is too much. You can get decent towing with the Dakota chassis but I think people who are looking for a larger tow rig aren't going to think Jeep as a player in that market. The entire Jeep line through history has been multi-use utility, not 4WD crew-cab cloning of a suburbanite toy hauler. I think they are grasping at nonexistant straws and looking for a market that doesn't exist. What happened to the proposed WDX looking Power Wagon based on the Dakota? This whole thing just rubs me wrong and I think it comes from seeing the Dodge/Mercedes/Freightliner Sprinter on the road. It should look like a Jeep and not a Ram with a custom grill. My grandfather had a 70's Wagoneer and the J trucks were based on that sheetmetal. Why couldn't they go with Grand Cherokee platform and front clip? There are alternatives.

The problems with the Dakota are several, however I do agree upon the size issue. That is why the Jeep Truck concept is utilizing a shortened Dodge frame with a 6.5' bed.
The Dakota is IFS, and automatic non-starter for Jeepers.
The Dakota has a terrible "break-over" angle and front and rear overhang and approach and departure angles make is not suitable for off road use.
The Grand Cherokee is a unibody with IFS both front and rear. That means no payload ability and no off road capability. Daimler has driven a stake through the heart of Grand Cherokee.
The WDX type Power Wagon Concept was actually on a much LARGER platform than the Ram, not the Dakota. It was huge!
Also the Jeep Rescue Concept was built upon a Ram platform and it was also huge.
For comparison, MoparTina is 5'9"

[rickt4498]

How about the Wagoneer grill wihtout the 7 toothy slots?....= )

ooohhhhhh.... much closer...

now blacken the grille, install a steel winch bumper w/ appropriate K# winch, give it some GOOD off road tires on low maintenance steel wheels,

(I'm thinkin' HONCHO) and were all set...

p.s. NORM all kidding aside...hope your medical diagnosis is a favorable one... wishin' and hopin' and prayin' for the best...

[MasterYota]

I would need to be shot in the head and left for dead before I could be convinced that this would be a good truck to buy. Its just plain ugly. Either grill looks like a square peg being driven down a round hole.

With todays stringent regulations, a 1/2 ton truck is virtually useless, as it has no payload capacity when compared to its cost. Downsized trucks are also feeling the same pinch. For a few extra grand I can buy a 3/4 or 1 ton truck to handle all the duty's of a truck, hauling and towing.

If Jeep really wants a truck in its lineup, then expropriate the Brute R/D and build one using those existing designs. Throw the garbage v6 in the dumpster and offer the 5.7 hemi, or bring back the 4.0L, and live with the fact that it won't be a one ton truck. It'll handle delivery of lawn clippings to the dump, and maybe tow your ski boat on the weekend. Both of which would fit in nicely with jeeps outdoor oriented life-style.

The Honcho's and Gladiators of yesteryear where not great trail trucks from the factory, they were too long, and too low. But they were good work trucks, with beefy components, and simple designs.

IMO Jeep should stick with the niche it fills, and concentrate on living up to the trail-rated claims that it makes. Jeep hasn't had a fullsize truck in some 20 years, and is doing just fine without one. Leave trucking to trucks, and wheeling to Jeeps.

The buying public of today isn't interested in an underpowered roughriding, uncivilized work truck. Thats why none of the other manufacturer's offer one. If they sold like hotcakes, everybody would be on board already. I would think that Jeep is barking up a dead tree with this idea...

[rickt4498]

full size JEEP pickups and/or FULL SIZE jeep pickups...

MASTERYOTA... you really shouldn't repress your feelings and just let 'em all hang out... ;> )

everyone's idea of an off road truck is different...

mine is a vehicle that can handle muddy two tracks through the woods to get to a camp site, or hunting cabin, or a hidden lake with a canoe or small rowboat in the back...

others are into EXTREME mud or rocktrails, or Baja, or whatever...

but there sure are a lot of cut down...cut up...shortened, jacked up,
Glads, Honchos, Wagoneers, etc. ... out on the trails

to each his own...

a full size Dodge Ram dually crew w/ a fifth wheel hitch is hardly an off road vehicle, but many still go OFFROAD.

[MoparNorm]

...
With todays stringent regulations, a 1/2 ton truck is virtually useless, as it has no payload capacity when compared to its cost. Downsized trucks are also feeling the same pinch. For a few extra grand I can buy a 3/4 or 1 ton truck to handle all the duty's of a truck, hauling and towing.

...The buying public of today isn't interested in an underpowered roughriding, uncivilized work truck. Thats why none of the other manufacturer's offer one. If they sold like hotcakes, everybody would be on board already. I would think that Jeep is barking up a dead tree with this idea...

You may have been speed reading, the truck in question is proposed for the Ram Power Wagon assembly line, which is a 3/4 ton truck, with a V-6 or V-8 CUMMINS diesel, but having a standard cab with a short bed, to eliminate the PW's "break-over" angle issues and keep the VCI at the industries highest.
It will have a very high towing rating and is targeted at the 25,000 to 30,000 unit range.
It is a niche truck that can make a profit only because it shares an existing line with minimal sheetmetal changes.
It is a design exercise only.

[MasterYota]

I may have been speed reading, and if anyone felt maligned by my comments I appologize, as that wasn't the intent. Asking for my opinion is the best way to get it; wether you like it or not is irrelevant.

I've always seen Jeep and Chrysler more as trend setters, than followers. If Chrysler would like to follow in the foot steps of GM and offer two identical trucks under different brand names, with a mere sheetmetal change, then by all means do so. Providing more competition in a somewhat stagnant market will surely drive a stake through the heart of Chrysler even faster than Fiat will.

Having read most of the articles on the Power Wagons offroad prowess, I'm let to belive there is very little wrong with the platform as it is. Sure a diesel would be nice, but a v6 diesel would be a waste of time. Most consumers buy 3/4 tonne and up trucks to tow heavy loads, not languish around in traffic wishing they purchased the engine upgrade package.

As for towing, a regular cab, short box truck with a 3/4 tonne rating is going to ride like a buck board wagon, and be a twitchy tow vehicle due to the short wheel base. This is probably why no manufacturer has offered (to my memory) a short box, regular cab 3/4 tonne tow rig since the M37.
Add to that mix, a 1000 odd pounds of diesel over the front tires, coupled with a short wheelbase, and it'll be a handfull to drive. Weight transfer to the rear wheels, when empty will be virtually nonexistant, leaving burned and shredded tires in its wake. Nevermind plowing in the corners.

As for wheelers, the old addage "Wheelers are built, not bought" stands at the forefront of my arguemnt. The current Powerwagon Chassis splits the difference between wheeler and tow'er just about perfectly. Start messing with it anywhere, and one aspect or the other of its indended design will start to suffer.

This would be the perfect niche vehicle to park beside the Prowler in a few years time. This is just my opinoin though, so take it with a grain of salt.

Has anyone designed a Topolino package for the Jeep Compass yet?

;)

[MoparNorm]

No issues taken or felt, just wanted to be sure you had the entire picture.
The suspension of the Power Wagon and indeed most Rams was copied directly from Jeep Engineering and (the new '09 Ram also has the Jeep rear coil suspension) so was the Jeep transfer case and the Jeep sway bar disconnect.
Rather than kill Dodge it was intended to add a few more units in sales to Jeepers who want their own brand truck.
Don't think of it as re-badging but the analogy between GMC and Chevy is noted. You'd be surprised as to how many GMC drivers hate Chevy but think their GMC is a far superior truck.
The ride of the new Dodge/Jeep suspension is far superior to the old style suspension, have you driven in or ridden in a new '09 Ram?
Thanks for your input.

[MasterYota]

I hadn't realized that so much of the jeep design had been incorporated into the Ram architecture. Is this excercise also considering a multilink coil suspension for the rear of this 3/4 tonne concept? A multilink setup front and rear would probably improve handling on the nose heavy design. I would imagine a fine line in suspension tuning would be needed to generate a tolerable ride, and a payload capacity that would stand up to 3/4T expectations.

While I don't really expect another truck option to kill dodge outright, it does provide another choice to take away from someone's bottom line somewhere. Extra competition isn't always a good thing. Its ok for consumers until they discover they have to many choices, and fail to make a decision at all.

Thanks for the excersize Norm, its good to put the 'ol thinking cap on once in a while.

[MoparNorm]

Yep, it's fun and we don't have to suffer the setback if the imaginary truck doesn't sell well....= )

[NNICKB]

Norm,

I am a big fan of the older Jeeps and the J series Wagoneers and Gladiators in particular. I am not a hard core rock crawler and live in the Northeast, where many of these vehicles were originally sold. Here is what I like about them:

1. They are an ideal size. Wagoneers are narrower and actually a bit shorter than '70s era "full size" Chevy Blazers. Yet they have full six passenger seating and room for gear. Gladiators are considered big trucks by some people's standards, but they are quite a bit narrower than Chevys, not to mention Dodges and Fords. Yet they still seat three across, and will carry a 4 foot plywood between the wheel wells.

2. They handle nicely, off road and on. They are manueverable, have light steering, ride well, and have a lot of articulation for off road travel. They are superb vehicles for winter driving on unimproved roads.

3. They are simple and easy to work on.

4. They look great.

Now the bad:

1. They rust.

2. They do not have much load capacity. The soft springs that give a smooth highway ride and good off-road articulation are simply not up to carrying a lot of cargo. That is true of all the old Jeeps. If you want to carry stuff, you need a Power Wagon.

3. See No. 1. These things REALLY rust.

Now, as to the Dodge knockoff, I'm somewhat OK with it, but have some reservations. I like the fact that it is a regular cab SWB and has quality mechanicals. That being said, I am a little tired of the Chrysler attitude that "Jeepness" is a matter of styling. And, as a northeasterner who likes to drive in wooded, hilly terrain, I like my utility vehicles on the narrow side, which the full size Dodges certainly ain't. As was pointed out by others, the Dakota is probably a better size platform, but would need considerable mechanical changes to become a real Jeep.

I am aware that the Wagoneers and Gladiators, not to mention CJ3s and 5s, have been gone for a long time. But there have been some real winners among the newer Jeeps. The XJ Cherokees and TJ Wranglers were great vehicles, and real Jeeps to boot. Also thought the Grand Cherokees (Generation 1 and 2) were pretty true to the roots. But the new Wrangler is much too wide and looks like a Hummer. The Liberty and Commander are OK vehicles, but, aside from the looks, don't seem to have much of the Jeep DNA. And that Compass, well, that was enough to make me give up on Jeeps for good...

My 2c.