The 230 Headerfold project

[monkeymissile]

Here's a site with an interesting take on the Tri-Y (it agrees with me!)-www.primatechmotorsports.com/products/pontohc/ohchdr.htm - their Tri-Y is 6 into 3 into 1 vs everyone else's "split" header (2 groups of 3 into 2 into 1). They claim that combining a split header into 1 shows a gain, it would be interesting to see how it compares to the "true" 6 cyl Tri-Y.

mSS,
I remember stumbling across this site. I'm curious about what they eventually come up with on their 6-3-1 design.

[maineSS]

Here's a site with an interesting take on the Tri-Y (it agrees with me!)-www.primatechmotorsports.com/products/pontohc/ohchdr.htm - their Tri-Y is 6 into 3 into 1 vs everyone else's "split" header (2 groups of 3 into 2 into 1). They claim that combining a split header into 1 shows a gain, it would be interesting to see how it compares to the "true" 6 cyl Tri-Y.

[monkeymissile]

The 318 Poly intake had a "heat tube passage" that crossed mid point, under the carb, from exhaust manifold to exhaust manifold.
Nearly every one of those manifolds, that I have seen, has been cracked at that point from the excessive heat and carbon build-up.
In a matter of minutes, most motors are close to 200 degrees, a simple heat riser to the air cleaner air horn has worked well enough for nearly every vehicle for over 60 years, are we obsessing here over a non-issue???

Norm,
me thinks you're right. I know I'd rather simplify this project rather than overly complexificate it (that's a technical term......)

[MoparNorm]

The 318 Poly intake had a "heat tube passage" that crossed mid point, under the carb, from exhaust manifold to exhaust manifold.
Nearly every one of those manifolds, that I have seen, has been cracked at that point from the excessive heat and carbon build-up.
In a matter of minutes, most motors are close to 200 degrees, a simple heat riser to the air cleaner air horn has worked well enough for nearly every vehicle for over 60 years, are we obsessing here over a non-issue???

[monkeymissile]

another idea?

seems to me that a system that relies on the exhaust manifold to heat the air/fuel mix is going to take a little while to do so especially on a cold day, thereby not being as effective as something that was pre-heating the intake manifold. What about some sort of heat tape? How hot do you want it to get?
Maybe another idea would be to make an aluminum or copper heatsink to suck some heat off the headers during the winter and direct it under the intake manifold.

[MoparNorm]

The heat riser is the stock item in the passenger side exhaust manifold on V8's, and in the only manifold on inlines. It's just a flapper valve controlled by a thermostatic spring.

A websearch would be best on pre-oiler or pre-luber. There's a few out there. I'll see if I still have some links....

...and, I've never seen a flapper older than 4 years old that wasn't oxidized shut, or open....

[John Waak]

Below is a link to Canton Accusump. Lots of basic information there on pre-oilers. The idea is to raise oil up to operating pressure before cranking the engine over.

http://www.accusump.com/

My 1980 Jeep had an interesting manifold preheater set up. Actually it was ridiculous, and minimally effective. Some flimsy sheetmetal shaped a chamber around the upper end of the manifold. This chamber trapped air that was heated by the hot exhaust traveling through the manifold. A piece of 3" hose ran from the forward end of the warm air chamber up and into the air cleaner. Supposedly, and barring any air leaks in the system, warm air was now drawn into the carburetor. With lots of fiddling, it kind-a-worked.

[JimmieD]

The heat riser is the stock item in the passenger side exhaust manifold on V8's, and in the only manifold on inlines. It's just a flapper valve controlled by a thermostatic spring.

A websearch would be best on pre-oiler or pre-luber. There's a few out there. I'll see if I still have some links....

[monkeymissile]

Could you gents direct me to the examples of "pre-oiling" and "heat riser" systems you're referring to? I am now intrigued. Have you seem these successfully added to our trucks?
Thanks!

Justin

[monkeymissile]

I live in south Texas. Mother Nature is my heat control valve.
Nevertheless, I had wondered what the northern climes would do about the missing valve; block heater, perhaps?

John,
yes, I'll probably use the block heater since the engine's so easily fitted for one. You probably have to keep a closer eye on your radiator more than I do though!

Justin

[JimmieD]

The enemy there is 'cold', so go for a head shot: add a water jacket block heater. There are also simple propane fired systems running independent of normal coolant system.

Note: 'Warm up problems' only critically effect 2 systems: oil supply & fuel supply. Adequate spark at statup is another related issue. The cold engine and especially its cold lubricant make cold temp starting more difficult, and fuel atomization and delivery suffer markedly. A pre-oiler solves #1 and can add 75%-150% to the life of the engine. With rotating & reciprocating assembly pre-oiled prior to startup a large part of the cold warmup battle is already won; because it then requires far less of the gasoline's power to move the cold engine parts. As the engine warms tolerances widen, allowing less friction, so the pre-oiler steps into that problem ahead of time as well by forcing oil into those tight cold clearances.

The fuel supply and atomization can be solved by addition of fuel injection, not an impossible task. In lieu of that a cold start injection of propane might be considered, if there is a pre-oiler in place. This is a relatively simple matter [intake fogger] not a whole lot more complicated than a gas barbeque. Attention to details will ensure that it doesn't become the latter.

Heat risers were the industry's low buck bandaid to step around a problem rather than to address it head on. If you want a truly successful result in this project it might be good to look at all related systems and see if they may also be economically brought into an integrated systems approach.

It's somewhat like war. The soldier is concerned with the enemy's bullets flying in his direction and fires back at what he can see, right here, right now. The general steps back and analyzes the war, not a fire fight, and determines to win on all fronts. December 7th reminded us of what it takes sometimes....

[MoparNorm]

Since the manifold heat control valve (most of whom are rusted shut) relies upon a warm motor to heat the air around a carb, the motor has to be running first anyway. I'd say it is of no consequence, and if it is, then run a heat riser like the factory used on later model trucks.
The heat riser doesn't know if it's attached to an exhaust pipe or a set of headers.....

[John Waak]

I live in south Texas. Mother Nature is my heat control valve.
Nevertheless, I had wondered what the northern climes would do about the missing valve; block heater, perhaps?

[monkeymissile]

This may be stupid question time, but . . .
Does the absence of a manifold heat control valve pose significant cold weather problems? Or, is heating the cold weather gas vapors handled in another way?

John,
I was told that the heat control valve was less critical unless you were in a consistently cold climate. I don't think I could design an effective exhaust system with a similar valve so I'll resort to crossing my fingers.....unless you've got some ideas?

Justin

[John Waak]

This may be stupid question time, but . . .
Does the absence of a manifold heat control valve pose significant cold weather problems? Or, is heating the cold weather gas vapors handled in another way?