The WC53 Carryall thread .

[Goose]

Jim and Bruce, Thank you for the warm welcome. I'm really excited to have all this expertise and help available.

Hey Bruce, thanks for the measurements. It doesn't surprise me that the cab narrows as it goes up. Mine is about 1-1/2" difference. As you said the cab is probably racked a little bit. I saw how you had to push yours over with the Hi-Lift, I will probably be doing the same. I want to fit the doors first and use them as a guide as well. Once I think the cab is straight I'll replace the floor and get ready to attach the wagon portion.

The plan for this truck is a resto mod. The purist in my wants the outside to look as stock and original as possible. The hot rodder in me wants it to be fun, reliable, and able to drive everyday.
I have a 05 Dodge Hemi, NV4500, NP241, 60 front, 14 bolt rear. I plan on using coil springs front and rear from a '15 RAM 2500 for a more comfortable ride. I love seeing restored vehicles, but I enjoy making them better than they were too. I want to do a pure restored Carryall some day, this one is so rough I don't feel bad modifying it.

I will be needing more measurements as time goes buy; I have to cut the back half off one body and weld it to the new cab section. Alex, the rear body cross member on my truck is gone. Would you be willing to share your CAD files so I can fab one? I found your build thread on Pirate and read it start to finish, awesome build, your fab skills are amazing. Then I found this forum.

A few words on my lover for Dodge PWs: My dad and Uncle bought a mystery Power Wagon pick-up in 1969 that they restored. We later discovered it was a carryall chassis, and front nose and dash, with a GMC cab welded on and a 1/2 ton dodge bed. Since then I've been hooked on Carryalls. We also have a WC55 that we are restoring original.

[jim lee]

Yeah, what Bruce said, this seems to be the preferred Carryall forum. There is a new one of Facebook but even though its a carryall list, its still Facebook and all that entails.

So post away. Don't wait 'till you have something done, just post what you have or you will never post. This is something that I've ben having to learn. If you wait, you wait forever.

So welcome! Lets see your truck and hear your story!

-jim lee

[Bruce in BC]

Rough sizes

(1) I measure 53 7/8 at the bottom of the door and 52 7/8 at the top of the door. Keep in mind these are rough numbers , it is dark in the shop and my interior is in place in this location.

(2) the measurement should be the same as the truck. The front floor of the Carryall was the same as the truck, it even has the curve for the back of the cab.

(3) measure diagonally when bracing the body and welding it up. Most of these bodies are tweaked or will be after you start welding. Really keep an eye on the rear gate area - I had to jack it out a long way to get it to align. i had a smaller issue with the front window opening - glad I checked it - the front window would not fit at one point.

(4) You going stock or upgrading the truck? Alex , myself and a few others can save you hours of time and money, I made the most mistakes and Alex makes the cool ideas, that should save you thousands in the end

(5) several folks who posted here have started new threads - except for Alex's thread most of the other threads can not be found, they go dead, from lack of views or interaction. You are welcome to post here, that was the whole purpose in the first place, common ground and a place for carryall owners to exchange ideas.

Bruce - way up in B.C.

[Goose]

B Pilliar Dimensions

Hey guys! I've been following all these builds for some time and I'm glad to say I now get to join the fun. I bought a Carryall a few months back, the blue green one on page 151 of the thread. To answer the question, the paint is hiding lots of rust.
In an effort to fix it I found a new drivers compartment from an ambulance from the firewall to the B pillars. It's in much better shape, but needs a new floor. No big deal. In my preparation for a floor replacement I noticed that the B pillar on the drivers side is plumb, and the one on the passengers side is tipped in. When I measure it I get about an inch and a half difference from bottom to top.
Can you guys tell me if these should be parallel to each other, or if they should taper in a bit? I haven't fit the doors yet, but was planning on doing this to help.
I plan on starting a thread on my build as soon as I have a little more to show.

Thanks
Chris

[Greg Coffin]

Hey Alex, those old riveting hammers look like they're going to do the job for you. One suggestion for the long hammer - remove the quick-connect air fitting and install a short section of hose on the end of the hammer, then terminate the hose with a quick-connect. When I was using my hammer for just a few minutes I found that there was enough play in the quick-connect that the latching balls destroyed the lip on the male fitting. The short section of hose absorbs most of the shock to protect the fittings.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the riveting goes. I've always wanted to rivet something. Born in the wrong century.....

[Matthew Welcher PWA]

Alex have you been riveting lately, I cannot wait to see how your tooling works out.

[Alxj64]

Alex, watch out for that pirate 4x4 forum. I know you post there, as does about a zillion others.

I just signed up on that forum. Twice now, while reading stuff on there, I suddenly get a "This site has wrong credentials" kind of popup. Suspicious.. The first time I ignored it, but last night it got persistent to the point I shut off my browser.

This AM I get a call from my ISP, "Your account has been hacked." I told them what I'd seen and they think it was pirate4x4 from my description.

P.S. Round end mill bit as a drill for drilling round bottom holes. Clever!

-jim lee

Yea, that forum has been having a lot of technical problems ever since it was sold to the Canadians (no offense Bruce). Lance and Camo used to do a good job with it but now its turned way too commercial. The downside is that it really is a very deep reservoir of technical and vehicle-centric minds. They are also very good a self-policing out the people who are non-contributors or just plain trolls, unlike FB groups where its more of a social whining fest.

But many thanks for the heads up. I always make sure I log out when I leave the page just in case. I'll certainly keep my eye on things too.

[jim lee]

Alex, watch out for that pirate 4x4 forum. I know you post there, as does about a zillion others.

I just signed up on that forum. Twice now, while reading stuff on there, I suddenly get a "This site has wrong credentials" kind of popup. Suspicious.. The first time I ignored it, but last night it got persistent to the point I shut off my browser.

This AM I get a call from my ISP, "Your account has been hacked." I told them what I'd seen and they think it was pirate4x4 from my description.

P.S. Round end mill bit as a drill for drilling round bottom holes. Clever!

-jim lee

[Alxj64]

Sounds like you are getting it knocked out Bruce! Fingers crossed that you can get it back up and running soon.

Its funny that you mentioned running a milling bit in the lathe; I did the same thing but I used mine like a drill bit. I found one that matched the head radius of the rivets I am using so I decided to turn out a test bit.

After I machined it, I heated it and quenched it. Its not tool steel hard but its harder than the original 8620 was when I started.

[Bruce in BC]

a whee bit ah progress

Got the new head on, not bolted down but the studs are in place. Sure enough the new head needed a little bit of machining to true it up. I had it shipped to a machine shop in Vancouver, they then checked it out and I drove over and picked it up. If the shop was local and no ferry was in the way I would have deberred the whole head, cleaned up any flash in the intake and exhaust ports and hit as many oil galleries as I could reach. But to do so would have added an extra two trips and a few ferry fees.

I am machining the rocker towers. I put a milling machine bit in the lathe and clamp the tower down on the tool rest. Got two done so far. Seems to work fine, the lathe does not know that it is not a milling machine. once this is done I will torque down the bolts using ARP's new lube. Apparently you only need to torque the bolts once. I suspect I will go back and do them a second time , after a few heat cycles.

Once the head is torqued down I will need to deal with the injectors. I hope I can machine my old ones to fit.

take care
Bruce

Love those old tools that Alex has managed to dig up.

[Bruce in BC]

Dies

made a few, forget what steel I used, each had a specific temp to heat to and then quench at a given temp or cool in a specific manner.
But some of the trash dies worked just as well. A piece of spring steel welded to the end of some steel bar made a great form for doing just what you are up to. I managed to grind the head shape into the spring, we had the rest of the set in the shop but the head piece was long gone. Might still be there in the shop but that was 30 years ago and 4 or 5 instructors have been working there since.

Any one know if the PWA magazine is back on track. I seem to be in the thick of things mechanical wise, might be worth the effort to do an article.

take care
Bruce

running for the ferry

[Alxj64]

Well, I was looking at how you did the metal on your anvil. Then the rivets. You bought a milling machine and painted it before unloading it from the truck. Next I ran into hotmess photography.. This got me thinking "These two are VERY visually oriented people". With this thought, I went back over some of your build threads looking at the "style" you use when making stuff.

It reminds me of super hero comic book artwork. But brought to life and made real. You should be building stuff for Hollywood with an eye like that.

So, I just wondered where you were picking it up.

-jim lee

Jim, this is great to hear! Honestly, when people ask me how I intend the truck to look, my most understood response is "have you seen the first Captain America movie?" as I am actually trying to build towards that retro-modern, kind of Sci-fi WWII genre that they did a very good job with in that movie. The architecture of the giant aircraft that they crash at the end of the movie has a lot of influence, but the influence of that is based on production machinery of WWII. One of the reasons I flew in that B17 was so that I could fill my mind with how things were actually built and then I can spin them in my post-modern manner. I am glad to hear that this actually being conveyed as my visual aesthetic! It is a very difficult task to balance the amount of new with old to try and pull off that effect. I feel like creating clean riveted and bead rolled bracketry to attach modern components helps fuel the look... it smears the line between "was that supposed to be there, or is that something new?" Obviously, purists and other WC owners know what is supposed to be there, however the general population is clueless.

So...in regards to rivets...These old *******s should do the trick! Turn of the century Hot rivet hammers. One was converted over to a chipping hammer as the previous owner installed a chipping head retainer but from what I've been seeing, as long as it has the variable valve in it, you can use it for setting rivets also. Some guys say that its either a rivet gun or a chipping hammer, not both; but from digging around in some old locomotive restoration forums (yes, that is a thing), lots of guys are just using retro-fitted chipping hammers with the simplate type valve. I'll need to make or source some "clips" to hold my setter dies or come up with my own system. According to the old timer that previously owned the one on the right, it didn't have die retainers and the operators would use leather boot strings hooked to wire leaders wrapped around the shank of the die and then wrap the leather around their lead hand fist holding the gun and that would pull the dies into the hammer. They used this method so that they could run a few sets of dies with different depth heads depending on the exact thickness of the plates as the volume of the protruding rivet is what determined the shape of the head. If they had a slightly thicker plate section due to shims or overlaps but only a few lengths of rivets, they'd work out the best dome shape to create the most effective rivet tail.Also, with smaller rivets that they could heat the end of the dies some too so that they wouldn't sap too much heat out of the rivet when driving; this is something the old timer suggested I do as well. He "ended up" with this hammer eons ago after repairing some bridge sections on an old truss bridges somewhere in Ohio. He used it some as a chipping hammer but mostly it has set of the shelf, I'm referring to the one on the right.

My 4x aircraft gun shown for size comparison that will cold set 3/16" aluminum with no problem but wouldn't barely put a dent in these 3/8" steel ones, even when white hot. That being the case, these bigger hammers should do just fine. I have to get the head shapes right for my dies now. I have an 11/16" carbide ball end mill that I am going to try and make a few dies with.

[jim lee]

Well, I was looking at how you did the metal on your anvil. Then the rivets. You bought a milling machine and painted it before unloading it from the truck. Next I ran into hotmess photography.. This got me thinking "These two are VERY visually oriented people". With this thought, I went back over some of your build threads looking at the "style" you use when making stuff.

It reminds me of super hero comic book artwork. But brought to life and made real. You should be building stuff for Hollywood with an eye like that.

So, I just wondered where you were picking it up.

-jim lee

[Alxj64]

Boyo, you got that right. I know that feeling.

So Alex, I was wondering, did you read things like Marvel comics as a kid?

-jim lee

No, not really; however I do know most of the more notable characters. Why do you ask? I grew up partially on my grandparents Angus Cattle Farm, neighbors and family friend's farms, and also my parents and grandparents operated a very large John Deere / Agco / Massey F. dealership that also did heavy hauling, recovery, and diesel rebuilds. Thats where I think a lot of my "metal head" mentality comes from. I loved riding in my dad's cabover International with an 8V92T and watching the shift linkage move, driveshaft spin, airbags charge, etc etc. I was a gear-head before I could walk.

[jim lee]

My projects have projects that have projects.

Boyo, you got that right. I know that feeling.

So Alex, I was wondering, did you read things like Marvel comics as a kid?

-jim lee