The WC53 Carryall thread .

[jim lee]

Is that the engine they use on the Dodge pickups?

-jim lee

[Bruce in BC]

hard to find a 4bt up here let alone parts

Cracked heads are way more common than you would expect. Finding a used uncracked head is short of impossible. According to my Cummins manual, if the crack is short and does not extend into the valve seat the head can be used. The crack in my head goes through the valve seat and beyond. Oddly enough it is not the exhaust that cracked but the intake. If I was only using the truck around here I would not be concerned, but the truck is going to see some long trips like it did last summer. A breakdown on a long trip would be a pain in the hoo hoo. Cummins does not use old heads on their remanufactured engines. I suspect the issue with the eBay seller may be shipping- but you would think he would be up front about it and try and help a customer. No response from the guy when I sent of a query this morning. He supposed to have 20 heads in stock some loaded some not.
I really do not want to have inserts installed but that may be what I have to do.
Between the head, gasket set and injectors I could buy 3/4 of an injected Chevy crate engine, at least that would be the case with my local Cummins dealer.
I like the engine but the cost of parts is absurd and its not like I have the fuel turned up or the pyrometer temps are high. Seldom break 900 degrees with the new turbo.

[jim lee]

There are no rebuildable used heads you can grab anywhere? Seems pretty scary using "Ya ya, no problem" venders for parts.

-jim lee

[Bruce in BC]

Cylinder head and ebay part 2

Ordered a cylinder head from an ebay dealer yesterday - he says he has 10 available, this morning the order is canceled , reason "none available" I am trying to figure out what the issue is but no response so far.
Also looked at Alibaba - lots of 4bt heads there but the site is very tough to get your head around if you are a first time user. Biggest issue seems to be shipping and getting a quote. We will see if I can get my head around the issues with this site.

Not fun.

I ran a feeler gauge down to the top ring on each damaged piston. No little bits of steel where down there. All the head bolts holes have been chased and tapped to the bottom. I am going to mark TDC while the head is off. This should help with setting things up or removing the injection pump. What should have been a short job just got a lot bigger.

[Bruce in BC]

That is expensive.

$1960.oo for the head, including taxes and shipping the cost comes to $2500.oo and the injectors would be another $ 1200.ooo on top of that . Lets just say I am looking at alternatives. I would order direct out of China but the head would take 6 to 8 weeks to get here and that is IF it ever did get here and it was the correct head. I was looking on AliBaba and there are 4bt heads listed as "gasoline"
Perhaps ordering the same Chinese head out of the US is a better alternative.
I see bare heads for $375.oo US and loaded ones for $495.oo plus 88 dollars shipping. The risk here is the brokerage fees and hidden costs . Sometimes I get charged and sometimes not.

Bruce

[Desoto61]

That really sucks Bruce, it's also making me nervous. Mine is a more modern rebuild but still, for a motor with such a legend of reliability it's a little worrying.

The fan mount bracket sounds interesting as I would also love to have about another inch at the front of the motor. Definitely let us know what you figure out.

[Bruce in BC]

Cummins - not all their cracked up to be

Got the head off and purchased the top end kit to put it back together. The issue was a blown head gasket between number 1 and number 2 cylinders. The top of the pistons got beat up from the pieces of the gasket getting between the piston and the head. No marks on the head but the pistons look like they got banged on with the end of a cold chisel. The cylinder walls are perfect and I have managed to scrape the piston tops off so they look less like a moon scape and more like a plowed field. But the big issue, and lets not forget that this is a motor with less than 50 thousand miles on it, is the head is shot.
The early heads had 9mm injector bores. Apparently the heads would crack between the bore and the exhaust valve seat. My problem? Number one cylinder has a decent crack between the injector hole and the intake valve. The crack extends right through the valve seat. I have three options.
(1) have a valve seat insert installed
(2) pick up a new bare head
(3) pick up a new fully loaded head.

all three option have issues
(1) valve seat inserts are known to drop, that will destroy the motor. Does not happen often but it does happen often enough that Cummins only uses new heads on their remanufactured engines.
(2) Works for me but I would need to do a valve grind
(3) not sure what the cost would be but up here it will not be cheap.

and of course the new heads all use 7mm injectors, I either need new injectors or get my old injectors rebuilt with 7mm tips. Of course the 7mm tips have a different spray pattern than the 9mm tips, which is another can of worms.

I also figured out that if I change my fan mount bracket to a 6bt bracket I may have more room at the front of the engine. Almost 2 inches more room. With that room I could build a shroud and reposition the electric fan or go for a bigger fan. Just need to find a decent price on the right 6bt fan mount and of course change the belt.

This motor just got stupid expensive.

grrrrrrr
Bruce

[Bruce in BC]

ITS ALIVE !!!! with apologies to Mel Brooks.

Well done Alex, I love the smile on your face when the truck lit up. Happy Birthday to your truck, I gather it has reached the ripe old age of 75 years old today. I am dragging my rear getting the shop cleaned up so I can get my Carryall inside - I know it will not be easy. Both cleaning up and moving stuff. I did order the studs for the head this morning, they should be here by the Saturday.
take care
Bruce

edit: sounds like Jim is having fun with his brakes - the fluid goes in and then it comes out all over the place.

[Alxj64]

I suspect it will come down to connections, hopefully the system is not so finacky that a longer wire, or a bigger wire will throw the signal off. You will get there, just gotta be patient and I know you are good at this stuff.
Yesterday I hit up a few shops looking for a dead B injector. I wanted to make an adapter and do a pressure test. My list of things to look at was getting shorter and I wanted a diesel compression tester. Found a hydraulic fitting that fit and had a hydraulic line made up and a liquid filled 500 PSI guage. Looks like I have a blown head gasket, either that or I plugged up the guage. First reading was 200 psi and the next cylinder was zip and the one beside it was zip as well.
So I am going for a stud kit. Not sure about the head gasket set. Cummins head gasket set would be 5 times that of what the off brand kits are, have not checked out Felpro prices. Not sure if I will O ring the head or not.

Oof, I hope that its not the head gasket but if it was do you think it happened suddenly?

You were right... Mine was connections; had a few bad pins at the ECM connection and the gasket for the weaherpak type connection had come loose and was getting in-between pins and bending them when you closed the Cam lock handle to engage the pull down connection.

So it lit off. Ran really rough at first but the engine hasn't run since 2005 when it was pulled from the wrecked truck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6T4d-tG0dc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFW_f0BYGQQ

[Bruce in BC]

Computer stuff can be so much fun

I suspect it will come down to connections, hopefully the system is not so finacky that a longer wire, or a bigger wire will throw the signal off. You will get there, just gotta be patient and I know you are good at this stuff.
Yesterday I hit up a few shops looking for a dead B injector. I wanted to make an adapter and do a pressure test. My list of things to look at was getting shorter and I wanted a diesel compression tester. Found a hydraulic fitting that fit and had a hydraulic line made up and a liquid filled 500 PSI guage. Looks like I have a blown head gasket, either that or I plugged up the guage. First reading was 200 psi and the next cylinder was zip and the one beside it was zip as well.
So I am going for a stud kit. Not sure about the head gasket set. Cummins head gasket set would be 5 times that of what the off brand kits are, have not checked out Felpro prices. Not sure if I will O ring the head or not.

[Alxj64]

Well, I replaced the FPRV on the rail... and the leak stopped but still no fire. I am having trouble getting the ECM to "wake up" basically. The TCM for the Allison will click on and hum but the ECM is acting like nothing more than a wheel chock. I was able to get the FCA to cycle by jumping pins though the connection point so I don't think the ECM is "bad" persay but maybe I am having some sort of connection issue. I have good continuity in the ground system so I am going to look into issues with the plug connection to see if I have a loose or dirty pin or two. At first I feared the ECM was cooked but after getting a few responses from it, I'm thinking its something else.

[Bruce in BC]

Update on the cummings

I picked up a new fuel can and fuel from a different source. Ran clear line to the lift pump and pumped it until the line was clear. I bled the line at the bleed port and cracked all the injector lines one at a time ( as the manual dictates) and have had no luck so far. Working under a tarp because the truck is outside and the rains have started. The truck sounds like it wants to run. The solenoid on the pump should be working. The engine just cranks when it is has no power run to it and the engine tries to start when there is power run to it.
Going to play with it for a few hours more and then I will pull the injectors and do a compression test. Unfortunately I then need new seals for the return lines and what not.
Took the day off yesterday, I was set up but kept getting interrupted, when I was asked to go for a hike, I packed it in and got about 8 miles in the bush.

Let us know when you fire that engine up. You will love how quiet it is and the extra power over the 4BT.

take care
Bruce

[Alxj64]

Must be Contagious through this thread

I went to fire my Common Rail this weekend and it is giving me fuel issues too. The lift system has a leak at the fuel temp sensor and then the fuel rail itself is leaking at the high pressure relief valve. When I bought the engine, it had a sticker that said "Replace, Maybe" on the valve... well, the maybe is a yes because it is leaking like a sieve and evidently if they are ever removed they must be replaced as per the service manual for my engine.

In regards to your mechanical engine, do you have an air separation system like a FASS? Honestly, could it just be a bad batch of fuel? Happened to my bud's truck. He spent thousands trying to get it to run right. Then finally one night of messing around with a new lift pump we were running it out of a fuel can on the floor and even without the lift pump, just running off the injection pump vacuum, it fired and ran better than it had in months of messing with it. We drained the tank and the fuel had a heavy viscosity with globules of grease in it.

[Bruce in BC]

Might be air.........

Pulled the filter and it was 1/2 empty. Stuck a clear line on the pump and we pumped air for quite awhile. The top of the pump has a can on it and a screw in the middle of the can. This can seemed to be loose. So we swapped the pump back to an old one. A bunch of pumping and the line ran clear. We thought we had the issue solved, bled the injectors multiple times. Was at it for 3 hrs and I had two helpers. Cummins would not fire. Next thing to do is to change the filter- check the old one for air and run a feed line directly to the pump from a jerry can. I need to pick up some fittings and lines for that one. Of course it is raining and I was going to hit a 4x4 truck show today to see what free stuff I could get passed my way. Not going to happen. " my diesel ran for 500,000 miles and I never touched it" yah right. " my diesel ran for 5000 miles and showed me who's boss"

[Desoto61]

Have you tried bleeding the injectors first? If you did get air in the system that would tell you and is an easy enough thing to try before yanking injectors.

Hopefully it's nothing big. These engines may not go bad often, but it's not cheap once they do.